Nesting boxes or rotting lumber????

[lumbertick]

I'm gonna pick on you a little bit Al....not personally...just on nest boxes in general. I have become skeptical of their value in the past few years. Mostly because I believe most of the houses that are put out are put too close together, in the wrong spot, shoddily constructed etc. and are more or less just some lumber rotting on a post. They are simply a feel good thing to do for different groups to put out and say that they are doing a wonderful thing....when they would be better off taking the money they used to build a nest box and stick it towards habitat reconstruction. Maybe you can get me some grant money to study this but I'd like to know what percentage of the wood duck population was hatched in a nest box vs. a natural cavity. It seem to me that the nest box mania has forgotten that the ideal nesting structure is a natural cavity. It doesn't need a guard or metal pole or to be cleaned out year after year. I have a hunch that the wood ducks have found a way around the lack of what we consider traditional nesting cavities and replaced it with something new/different...that isn't a nest box. I honestly am interested in your thoughts on this.

lt

[Waterfowlist]

I like to think I have had great success with the houses I have been maintaining over the years. I often find strong signs of a hatch. I put new bedding in mine every year, but have wondered the same thing. Why they need it in there when normally they just nest in yes cavities.

[Quack]

It's more a question of "efficiency" ... on a local scale.

Well maintained nest boxes don't suffer nest predation like tree cavities. Predator populations are higher, habitat is lower quality and less available.

It starts with Habitat, but logistically and economically, there's only a certain amount of habitat work that can be done. Nest boxes cause the same amount of habitat to produce more ducks than it otherwise would. Just like predator mgmt. Whether it's a net gain is basically impossible to know - it's entirely possible the added production simply die as ducklings instead of eggs. But it's unlikely. They more than likely get shot, which is the why we do the projects in the first place - make more targets!

Just like any management scheme - fish stocking to farming - people have figured out ways to produce more of what they want.

As for % of the population that's produced in nest boxes, it's small from a continental perspective. However, in some areas nest boxes have proven to build populations - California is an example. The woodie population there has grown dramatically over the past 30 years and there's no way to explain it other than the large number of nest boxes that are well managed. Also, nest boxes are efficient- 80% success vs. 20% success.

Rip on the "feel good" aspect if you want, but what good is donating $$$ to a habitat org if it doesn't make ya feel good?! Do you feel directly responsible for anything when your habitat $$$ is just a small slice of a big pie? Can you show me exactly what your habitat $$$ accomplished? Or would you get more satisfaction from actually doing a project, managing it, seeing it succeed, and expanding?

It's really not an either/or question, though. Both are good. Seeing is believing.

[h2ofwlr]

Quack makes some good points, especially in California where there is a lack of suitable trees for nesting.

LumberTicks comment are in itlics:
Mostly because I believe most of the houses that are put out are put too close together
You are correct. And why I promote a min of 200' between, 200yds is better yet.

in the wrong spot
Again I agree. next to trails is not good because way too many people walk their dogs--which the hen views as a predator.

shoddily constructed
I somewhat agree, some designs like to access the box is from the top makes no sense. Or they glue and/or nail the boards together (damned near impossible to repiar the box if needed) That is why screws are best, for easy repair years from now.

They are simply a feel good thing to do for different groups to put out and say that they are doing a wonderful thing....when they would be better off taking the money they used to build a nest box and stick it towards habitat reconstruction.
I agree in that 'community" groups like the boyscout, etc do a real poor job of doing long term maintenance of them. Then there is placement on trees (aaaargh!) As for habitat, you really can not do a whole lot for say $500. If a group saved up for 10 years they could buy 1 acre. And how many ducks would get raised there? Meanwhile Wood Duck Boxes (WDB) and Mallard Hen Nests (MHN) you can be involved in actually raising ducks provided you are using the methods that work ("Best Practivces" method for WDB and how to construct and where to place the MHN).

Maybe you can get me some grant money to study this
You are on your own there my friend.

I'd like to know what percentage of the wood duck population was hatched in a nest box vs. a natural cavity.
I do not know the answer as I've never seen a study with comprehensive data to indicate this- not saying that a report of a study is not out there, My gut feeling is a small %, like 2-3% in the big scheme of US and CAN, but in local areas it could be as high as 30%

It seems to me that the nest box mania has forgotten that the ideal nesting structure is a natural cavity. It doesn't need a guard or metal pole or to be cleaned out year after year. I have a hunch that the wood ducks have found a way around the lack of what we consider traditional nesting cavities and replaced it with something new/different...that isn't a nest box.
Well the mania started over 50 years ago. A lot has been learned on what to do and not to do. the problem is ill informed conservation minded people out there. They do not do the necessary research of how best to do it, and then there is the lack of comittment to do maintenace long term. No doubt the natural cavities work well. But they only have a 20% sucess rate too. IMHO throwing abox on a tree you will not even get 20%. Why? because often they are right along the shoreline where the highest $ of predator are located. And once Mr Rocky Racoon knows that boxes = dinner, they put 2+2 together in the future. And then the squirrels love to take over the boxes too where as many cavities the squirells would not use.

Some notes on WDBs.
In my view where boxes can make a difference are 2 areas: 1st where there in minimal/no mature trees for natural nests it provides them a nest location. 2nd is if even if there are mature trees for their nests, a box on pole with the guards ensures a 80% success rate. (you can not stop avian predators which account for the 20% loss). An 80% sucess vs an 80% loss of natural nests makes it an appealing option. If nailing a box on a tree is your aim, then why even do it? Instead give the $ to Delta for a permanent easement of a pothole or to DU for acraeage or to MWA for a dedicated funding of a project in MN.

Some people balk at the extra cost of the guards and posts. But one needs to look at it this way and look at the true costs: Say that you build and put up 20 boxes on tree trunks which cost say $30 for the cedar wood and hardware, lets say everyone of them gets used--on average at least 4 of the 5 are raided by predators. It cost you $600 for 4 successful hatches. Now lets do it the "Best Practices" method. It costs me about $60 per box, guard, and poles but I and others get a 80% success rate. So I can put up 5 boxes with the cone shaped guard and post 30' away from overhanging treebranches and get 4 sucessful hatches which cost me $300. So it is 1/2 the cost per successful hatch than the improper method. Or put another way, if I spent the same $600 wisely for 10 boxes, guards and posts, I get twice the successful hatches. And another thing, trees grow and often as a result of their growth the backs of the boxes split open when mounted to a tree, so now you have to factor in box replacement years ahead of time. That cost must be factored in too for the long term cost. But wait - there is another thing to be factored in -- I may have lost 2 hens to avian predators on those 10 boxes, but the other method a person looses up to 16 hens--hens where a decent % would have returned the next year to have a hatch. Now compound this over say 15 years... So how cost effective is it really to place them on tree trunks? I think I have made my point.

So in summation, if you are going to go about it 1/2 azzed like many do, please do not bother to do so as in reality you are not doing the Woodies a favor at all. Because if you do, you'll get the same peeing in your pants type nice intitial warm feeling of your effort, but then the cold smelly reality sets in of what you have done. And each year they are on those tree trunks along the shoreline more hens are needlessly being killed off and eggs eaten because one did not bother to educate themselves. Yes I am blunt, but it is based upon experience and the knowledge learned form many others.