get-n-birdy
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:20 pm

Trigger wrote:Sure there are little internet squabbles about busting roosts, fields vs water, shooting drakes only and there are the black hoodie guys still holding onto 2005,, things like that. But no duck hunter is going to yell at a guy in real life for shooting a duck that is to small, or to big, or doesn't haven't enough color. But qdm and Muskie guys will openly chastise you for shooting a buck that's to small, or killing a precious Muskie. They're douches alright, all douches.

The trout guys are a funny little breed too. Ever heard of te guys that fly fish with flies that don't have hooks, because making the fish rise is all that matters? Douches.


You can't be serious?

Trout syndrome has inflicted bass, walleye, muskie, QDMA guys something fierce. It is almost an incurable virus. It's snob-ish and I hate it! Yep, I said hate! It is guys barking about youngsters and how bad they are or how bad everyone outside their own clouded up, perverse image of what fishing or hunting should be about.

Purist, elitist bull chit X2!

Guys are pulling butt loads of huge pike out of Mille lacs and we will see if the system can sustain it. Will be interesting to see if it has any affect on the bait supply in the lake or the lakes walleye recruitment. But only time will tell. And it will be no cure all and it will have possibly some side affects we can't predict.

I use to be a big catch and release nazi. But after seeing the true colors of some of the neocon's, it is foolish what kind of religious fundamentalism their precious worshiped fish has turned them into.
DENNIS ANDERSON, Then, about five years ago, in 2020, there were no more ducks in the state,

tyler
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:40 pm

get-n-birdy wrote:
Trigger wrote:Sure there are little internet squabbles about busting roosts, fields vs water, shooting drakes only and there are the black hoodie guys still holding onto 2005,, things like that. But no duck hunter is going to yell at a guy in real life for shooting a duck that is to small, or to big, or doesn't haven't enough color. But qdm and Muskie guys will openly chastise you for shooting a buck that's to small, or killing a precious Muskie. They're douches alright, all douches.

The trout guys are a funny little breed too. Ever heard of te guys that fly fish with flies that don't have hooks, because making the fish rise is all that matters? Douches.


You can't be serious?

Trout syndrome has inflicted bass, walleye, muskie, QDMA guys something fierce. It is almost an incurable virus. It's snob-ish and I hate it! Yep, I said hate! It is guys barking about youngsters and how bad they are or how bad everyone outside their own clouded up, perverse image of what fishing or hunting should be about.

Purist, elitist bull chit X2!

Guys are pulling butt loads of huge pike out of Mille lacs and we will see if the system can sustain it. Will be interesting to see if it has any affect on the bait supply in the lake or the lakes walleye recruitment. But only time will tell. And it will be no cure all and it will have possibly some side affects we can't predict.

I use to be a big catch and release nazi. But after seeing the true colors of some of the neocon's, it is foolish what kind of religious fundamentalism their precious worshiped fish has turned them into.



Pulling out big pike will probably hurt. Isn't having large pike in the system the best ways to keep the number of small pike down?

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Goldfish
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:26 pm

tyler wrote:
get-n-birdy wrote:
Trigger wrote:Sure there are little internet squabbles about busting roosts, fields vs water, shooting drakes only and there are the black hoodie guys still holding onto 2005,, things like that. But no duck hunter is going to yell at a guy in real life for shooting a duck that is to small, or to big, or doesn't haven't enough color. But qdm and Muskie guys will openly chastise you for shooting a buck that's to small, or killing a precious Muskie. They're douches alright, all douches.

The trout guys are a funny little breed too. Ever heard of te guys that fly fish with flies that don't have hooks, because making the fish rise is all that matters? Douches.


You can't be serious?

Trout syndrome has inflicted bass, walleye, muskie, QDMA guys something fierce. It is almost an incurable virus. It's snob-ish and I hate it! Yep, I said hate! It is guys barking about youngsters and how bad they are or how bad everyone outside their own clouded up, perverse image of what fishing or hunting should be about.

Purist, elitist bull chit X2!

Guys are pulling butt loads of huge pike out of Mille lacs and we will see if the system can sustain it. Will be interesting to see if it has any affect on the bait supply in the lake or the lakes walleye recruitment. But only time will tell. And it will be no cure all and it will have possibly some side affects we can't predict.

I use to be a big catch and release nazi. But after seeing the true colors of some of the neocon's, it is foolish what kind of religious fundamentalism their precious worshiped fish has turned them into.



Pulling out big pike will probably hurt. Isn't having large pike in the system the best ways to keep the number of small pike down?

"Not if the big pike are eating the walleye"
-walleye guys

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lanyard
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:54 pm

"Less competition for muskies!"- Musky guys.

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Drunk_Dynasty
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:15 pm

Goldfish wrote:You don't think guys get guff for shooting hens?


I have Rick Ross as my photo on here, you think I would give a sh!t anyways?

tyler
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:07 pm

who is rick ross

gimpfinger
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:35 pm

tyler wrote:who is rick ross

A guy?

Team Power Dump
Hate hate hate hate hate hate

tyler
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:59 pm

o

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Drunk_Dynasty
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:10 am

Rick Ross is an advocate for the American Pear Growers Association
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGf6TP6hZXc
[YouTube]v=JGf6TP6hZXc[/YouTube]


EDIT: For chist's sake can someone teach a simpleton how to embed a youtube video?

OTCKid
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Re: Pike Spearing Returns To Mille Lacs

Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:27 am

Hi -

So I'm new to this forum. Just stumbled across it actually. Been away from waterfowling for years but my 9 YO son wanted to go this fall, and I rediscovered how much I loved it...and here I am.

But to the current topic - I have spent way more time in and around this stuff than I care to think about, so here's a few informed thoughts. (Notice I didn't say right - just informed :) )

- Spearing hasn't been prohibited on Mille Lacs in the past because of the muskies or as a barrier to spearing in and of itself, moral, political, or otherwise. It was prohibited because as part of the 1937 treaty settlement, by-catch of pike during spring netting is one of the regulated parts of the agreement. In other words, there's a max harvest on pike in the lake too, so if the by-catch + angler harvest hits those totals some of the agreement's conditions on continued netting kick in. The spearing ban and slot limit were part of the mechanism for controlling overall pike harvest on the lake. It had the side benefit of protecting a very high quality pike fishery. You can count the number of lakes in the state with the pike fishery Mille Lacs has had on one hand minus a few fingers.

- Part of the reason the DNR opened the lake to spearing was because of an observed and very rapid change in the pike population backed up by some very good data. Inshore pike nets showed the highest pike numbers in 30 years, with high numbers of age 0 - 2 pike. Meanwhile, numbers of larger fish (+28") were lower than average. All in all, the data pointed to a dramatic increase in small pike that could significantly upset the overall population balance. So increasing harvest opportunity was one means of checking the expansion. Thus the 10 fish limit and opening the lake to spearing... Again, very little politics involved, or way less than there usually is at any rate.

- So why the pike population boom? Hard to say, and the DNR doesn't have hard data to answer it. In a system as complex as Mille Lacs it's likely there are multiple answers, from higher survival rates of YOY pike to more effective foraging due to clearer water to climate change to decreased competition from walleyes to...Lord only knows. Bottom line is there are more pike there than has historically been the case and it was cause for concern, especially given the state of the rest of the fishery.

- What impact will spearing have on the quality of the pike population over the long term? Hard to say. I know there are many spearers who are responsible, practice 'look and release' and don't spear big pike just because they can. There are also those who spear the biggest fish they can as often as they can....just like there are walleye fishermen who keep every big walleye they catch, panfish anglers who keep limits of 14" crappies... That's just human nature. I do have some concerns personally about the number of big pike coming out of Mille Lacs this winter. Spearing is a very effective form of harvesting and there's a lot of data showing that for the amount of effort harvest volume and average size is higher for spearers than anglers. And, whether it's spearing or angling, anglers are very size selective with pike. Make the limit 100 if you want, but anglers just don't keep pike under 22" in enough numbers to matter. That's been shown to be true several times in the past. But for all that, increased harvest has the intended effect of bringing the pike population back into better balance, so be it.

- To the larger issue of spearing bans on muskie lakes...a holdover from some bad days and a lot of bad blood between muskie anglers and spearers. The group that represents the largest organized group of muskie anglers/clubs in the state hasn't advocated for new spearing bans at all, and other than on Cass Lake, hasn't really had an issue with spearing bans being lifted.

- The whole cap on special regs for pike debacle is an entirely different story. I could write volumes on it, and have in the past. But I'll spare you. You're welcome.

- Elitism... It's an infantile disease that pops up in almost every segment of the outdoor world. Some muskie guys (and believe me if you think you've seen the worst of the elitism in the muskie world, you haven't), steelheaders that quibble over the relative value of a 'stocker' vs. a 'native' or trout heads that howl in indignation when a trout gets caught on a spinner or (cue Marlon Brando from Apocalypse Now: "the horror...the horror...") a worm. ... Walleye guys, bass tournament guys, 'trophy' deer hunters. The spearing crowd has them too frankly. It's at the root of a lot of the pike vs. muskie conflict in a way. It's regrettable and regrettably inescapable.

- Pike are always tough to deal with because they're different things to different people. To one person they're a trophy species a lot like muskies. To others they're a consumable species like walleyes or panfish. Making those two points of view coexist isn't easy, and serving both user demands is really a challenge for the DNR. It's a lot like the deer hunters. One guy looks at a 3 year old buck and sees a potential trophy, another sees a potential dinner. With pike, one sees a 28" pike and sees a future 40 incher. Another sees a future evening meal with a side of mashed potatoes and some carrots... Both valid, both ethical, moral and reasonable.

- Goldfish: Yes, having quality pike in a system is a major population control on smaller pike, for lots of reasons not the least of which is cannibalism. Many of the 'hammer handle' lakes MN has is a result of overharvest of mid-size pike that never allows that top echelon of the population to develop. What's odd about Mille Lacs is that for the most part that population is there now, but the number of small pike still boomed over night. It's an odd case for sure. One of the many mysteries on that lake at the moment.

- As far as the muskie guys on Mille Lacs... they're squealing for different reasons. The population in the lake has leveled off from some very artificially high peaks and now at least some muskie guys are singing the blues because it's not easy to catch big fish there any more. When the DNR stocked the lake the stated intent - and what muskie fishermen *asked for* - was to create a fishery with a chance at a giant. That's what it is - a low density population with the potential for a world class fish. Muskie fishermen got *exactly* what they asked for. Turns out what they *really* wanted was big fish and lots of them forever. Speaking as a muskie fishermen, I think the whining about Mille Lacs' muskie fishery right now is freaking hysterical...

Anyhow - some random thoughts on the subject.

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