New MN DNR deer leader wants herds eradicated

[Fish Felon]

I'm a strong advocate of QDM, and Manage my farm for it.

Manage your farm for it, get some neighbors to join you if possible, but to force others to pass on small bucks because you want to have more opportunities to shoot big ones is ridiculous.

You know what the most surefire way to "balance the herd" is and ensure there are plenty of big bucks?

Make it illegal to shoot big bucks.

Seriously.

If it's so beneficial to have more big bucks amongst the herd then let's make it so any deer with antlers wider than their ears or has four points on one side is illegal to shoot.

After all, it's all about the "health" of the herd and age structure of bucks....

.....right?



Please point out the flaws in my logic or simply admit you just want it to be easier to shoot deer you can brag about.

[Mallard_maniac]

I'm not insinuating we force people to shoot or not shoot anything. One of the reasons I dislike APR's. Taking a life of an animal is a very big decision and one I don't take lightly... I make no apologies but don't shoot anything without se degree of remorse/respect...

I also could care less about bragging, if I did... I'd have a Facebook account, drink at local bars and be on prostaffs. I sincerely care the most about age structure.

Right now, the avg age ofharvested antlered whitetail deer in MN is 1.5 years old... Plain and simple. Cross any imaginary line in any direction and it goes up... Strictly because of where their gun season sits in relation to the rut (a bucks (especially a young bucks) most vulnerable time) OR they strictly regulate the amount of gun tags within a zone for antlered deer (like ND does). Moving guns outside of the rut will improve age structure simply by taking pressure off deer during the rut... No APRs or any other have-to's involved. Your still free to shoot a fork, they just might not come in to rattling downwind after a night of booze and cigarettes like they would mid-Nov. Our season structure (status quo) dates back to the 70's and we have considered any other management since then absurd. Meanwhile other states reap millions and millions of dollars in economic benefits. We have unlimited over the counter, very cheap non resident deer tags and are literally the worst state in the nation within the native whitetail range for non resident deer hunters. Pretty sad when at one time we were the #1 B&C producing state and county in the nation.

Now let's hear your "logic"

[Drunk_Dynasty]

QDM guys are musky fisherman.

[Mallard_maniac]

QDM guys are musky fisherman.

I'm alot of things, mostly negative, but a good musky fisherman isn't one of em.....

I can catch shallow water hammerhandles with the best of them though

[emptymag]

I want to shoot a big buck every year with little to no effort and not pay a game farm.

[Big Doe Hunter]

I have to admit that the new guy looks like a total Tool. Personally I want to shoot bigger does.

[Fish Felon]

Right now, the avg age ofharvested antlered whitetail deer in MN is 1.5 years old... Plain and simple. Cross any imaginary line in any direction and it goes up... Strictly because of where their gun season sits in relation to the rut (a bucks (especially a young bucks) most vulnerable time) OR they strictly regulate the amount of gun tags within a zone for antlered deer (like ND does). Moving guns outside of the rut will improve age structure simply by taking pressure off deer during the rut... No APRs or any other have-to's involved. Your still free to shoot a fork, they just might not come in to rattling downwind after a night of booze and cigarettes like they would mid-Nov. Our season structure (status quo) dates back to the 70's and we have considered any other management since then absurd. Meanwhile other states reap millions and millions of dollars in economic benefits. We have unlimited over the counter, very cheap non resident deer tags and are literally the worst state in the nation within the native whitetail range for non resident deer hunters. Pretty sad when at one time we were the #1 B&C producing state and county in the nation.

Now let's hear your "logic"

I guess the difference is that you see it as a failure of the DNR to not have enough big bucks in the herd to market our nonresident tags in large quantities.

I don't.

One of the many reasons I don't like APR/QDM is that it ruins deer hunting where it takes off. I personally would never want MN to be like IA or even worse, TX. The surrounding states aren't going to come here for deer hunting even if there were a lot more big bucks, why would they? Why would we want them to?

Moving the season out of the rut would be a good compromise between the QDM/APR and guys like myself....bird hunters that casually enjoy deer hunting and eating venison that will almost always shoot the first legal deer they can. I'm envious of WI's tradition of having deer hunting during Thanksgiving week and it free up early November for duck hunting, traditionally (past couple decades) a very good time to waterfowl hunt.

[Mallard_maniac]

I guess the difference is that you see it as a failure of the DNR to not have enough big bucks in the herd to market our nonresident tags in large quantities.

I don't.

No... I don't advocate we "market" ourselves to non-resident hunters. But the truth is a state's non-resident/resident ratio of using a resource is a good comparison to how it is being managed. Consider the fact that we are about 6th in the nation for non-res/resident fishing licenses. That's pretty good considering the vast amount of resident angles. Now consider we are in the bottom 5 states non-res/resident ratio for hunting. See I don't see it as a failure on the DNR's part to have enough big bucks to market to non-resident hunters per se, but the simple fact that non-resident hunters don't want to come here should be a red flag to big game managers.

One of the many reasons I don't like APR/QDM is that it ruins deer hunting where it takes off. I personally would never want MN to be like IA or even worse, TX. The surrounding states aren't going to come here for deer hunting even if there were a lot more big bucks, why would they? Why would we want them to?

there's alot going on in these couple sentences, so I'll try and respond in linear order so as not to rabbit trail meanwhile keeping it brief. First off, ruins is a vague term.... while I probably share some of the same sentiments that you do, I can't in good faith say it ruins deer hunting. I'll be the first to admit I am sick to death of catchy teams like "Bone Collector" and "The Crush" but one cannot argue with the marketability of these outdoor "celebrities" so is it my place to cast stones, just because they had the wherewithall to be a successful hunter? Answer is no. The truth is if I had the cods to quit a secure, well paying job and move my wife to south central Iowa, buy a farm that there is no way I could afford with out some SERIOUS income and then try to break into (I have to believe) a competitive market of TV hunting... can you really blame them for shooting big deer? After all that's why people are tuning in every week. No offense but I don't know one person that has ever watched a TV show and said "did you see that big doe such and such shot?". Or are you simply saying it "ruins" deer hunting because it emphasizes selective harvest? So that begs the question then does shooting only drakes ruin duck hunting? How bout shooting only Tom's ruin turkey hunting? 2nd) MN will never be like Iowa or Tx no matter how much you change the structure. Both of those states have an extremely small amount of public land, and we are blessed to live in a state with an abundance of both private and public. Because of that both states have become "pay-to-play" states for not only non-res, but resident hunters also. Hunting out west for elk and mulies I run into a TON of people from TX. Most just simply want an opportunity and states like Co, Wy, Mt, and Id provide millions of acres of public land. Not only do they provide the opportunity local business rollout the red carpet for non resident hunter and it shows. MN Has millions itself meanwhile no one wants to come here. 3rd) Why would surrounding residents come here to hunt? Answer is simple and straightforward... Unless your an Iowa resident where you get 2 buck tags or you live in a state with serious population issues, most states only allow you one. That's one antlered deer per season in your home state. If you're an absolutely serious deer hunter, you'll travel and generally regardless of the costs. 4th) Why would we want them to? Again a simple answer: Revenue. Whether you chose to like it or not, whitetail deer are the number one revenue producing game animal in the world. No other animal even gets close. Now more than ever serious deer hunters are willing to spend BIG dollars to hunt wherever they see potential for trophy deer. With our current season structure we're basically saying don't come here, go somewhere else. Ive been in Albia, IA; Hutchinson, KS and Eastern, NE during deer season. I've been in Gunnison and Pagosa Spgs, Colorado during elk gun season opener. We have absolutely no idea what we're missing out on.... Every September I see our area flooded with non-resident plates from all over the country coming into my neck of the woods to try and shoot black bear. If only the same were true for the #1 game animal in the world (in MN that is).

Moving the season out of the rut would be a good compromise between the QDM/APR and guys like myself....bird hunters that casually enjoy deer hunting and eating venison that will almost always shoot the first legal deer they can. I'm envious of WI's tradition of having deer hunting during Thanksgiving week and it free up early November for duck hunting, traditionally (past couple decades) a very good time to waterfowl hunt.

The truth is the APR in the SE MN was a comprimise. QDMA and other smaller organizations down there fought hard to push gun season out of the rut and DNR wouldn't bite. To me it's a no brainer... almost every gun hunter I know verbalizes their disdain for our current whitetail climate, meanwhile they claim to "miss hunting in the snow". But bring up moving the gun season and I'm quickly thrown to the wolves.

Lastly I've brought up the economical reasons a few times simply because it's a language everyone speaks. You might not have the slightest clue about QDM but if you hear the state DNR is missing out on somewhere around $20 million per year by having our season structure the way it is and it gets real, real fast. Meanwhile dedicated funding, license sales and a myriad of other $$ sources dwindle rapidly for our wildlife managers I frankly don't see how we can ignore this giant elephant in the room. But the truth is there's biological reasons that are even more beneficial than the money to have a healthier better balanced age structure. The $$ are just a bi-product. Your last response struck me as very ironic BTW. You basically argued that the current season & structure is "good enough" and we should be happy with it. Growing big deer would make us greedy while what we have, we should be satisfied with. Seems like our commissioner recently had a similar response in regards to a special teal season? Tell me, what were your thoughts on that?

[Fish Felon]

No... I don't advocate we "market" ourselves to non-resident hunters. But the truth is a state's non-resident/resident ratio of using a resource is a good comparison to how it is being managed. Consider the fact that we are about 6th in the nation for non-res/resident fishing licenses. That's pretty good considering the vast amount of resident angles. Now consider we are in the bottom 5 states non-res/resident ratio for hunting.

What are you talking about?

So the Dakotas have better bird hunting because they manage it better? Yup, that's it. It has nothing to do with having a 20% of the people as MN [combined] or soil quality far inferior to where farm programs like CRP or even just grazing and haying for livestock pencil out a lot better than here.

You know why IL doesn't attract a lot of non-resident fisherman?

It's because they don't manage their resources well...

....oh wait, that's a phucking retarded thing to say since they don't have shit for water and fisheries, not even a wrinkle on a ballsack in comparison to us. It's almost like we live in the land of 10,000 lakes or something.

Your comparisons are delusionly apples-to-oranges.


One of the many things you're missing is we live in a very affluent state...consistently ranked highest quality of living, lowest unemployment rate of any metropolitan area, better wages, etc., etc....

We export more hunters because we're wealthy and there's a lot of us. ND, a state with a population less than our two biggest cities, with great deer hunting, doesn't export a lot of their deer hunters here....no shyte....

Who cares?

[Big Doe Hunter]

We export more hunters because we're wealthy and there's a lot of us. ND, a state with a population less than our two biggest cities, with great deer hunting, doesn't export a lot of their deer hunters here....no shyte....

They should! MN has and harvests a lot more deer than ND! SD is a different story.