Interesting info on ID of ducks relating to teal season.

[h2ofwlr]

A biologist from LA had this to say about duck ID of the average hunter:

But I doubt most people on this forum understand "average" duck ID skills. I was disappointed in how poorly hunters did in a study using winter-plumage ducks mounted on sticks with a wing protruding to test the ability of hunters to identify ducks in 10 MF states in 1992-93 ..... in the later years of the 30/3 seasons when supposedly only the most dedicated hunters were still participating. The abstract isn't very informative, but I recall birds like hen pintails, redheads, and ring-necked ducks being correctly identified by 20% of hunters or less. Now put them on the wing?
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3782957?uid=3739688&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103757908267


So can the average hunter really ID the different species of ducks? Hmmmmmm...

[h2ofwlr]

There was a study in 1992 on the attempt rate on non legal birds during the Teal season, but he does not have the report or know where it may be found.


But he quoted this from the report on the 1965-67 experimental teal season:
(FYI he said the file is way too long to post up and he does not know anywhere on the net that there is place to link it to).

The second matter of concern has been the inability (or unwillingness ?) of many hunters to avoid shooting other species of ducks -- species which it is illegal to shoot during the teal season -- whenever an opportunity presents itself. The conclusion reached after the first season, that the illegal kill did not adversely affect the population status of any species (with the possible exception of the mottled duck) does not mean that the illegal activity is not a problem. Taking into account only those hunting parties that were observed to have an opportunity to fire at protected species during the 3 years, 41, 43, and 47% of those parties respectively did fire (Table 9). The fact that the kill of illegal species was comparatively low was due to 3 factors. First, there were many more teal than other species in most areas. Second, fewer shots per flight were fired at protected species than were fired at teal. Third, related to this was the fact that illegal species tended to fly higher, were more wary, and as a result, were less vulnerable to shooting. It appears that compliance with the "teal only" provision of the experimental season was very poor in most areas. Perhaps of even greater significance is the lack of evidence that either willingness or ability of hunters to shoot only at teal improved in succeeding years. If anything, the data suggest that the proportion firing at protected species increased during the course of the experiment.

[h2ofwlr]

More info on attempt rates:

During that time(1992), there was a published paper from the spy-blind studies in KY and TN focused on wood ducks. Their season was wood ducks only during the closed teal seasons. Here is the citation for the paper in case you want to read it yourself, and a quote I pulled from it regarding non-target kill attempts:
http://seafwa.org//resource/dynamic/private/PDF/PRITCHERT-241-248.pdf

Hunters shot at nontarget species in 14 of the 93 opportunities in which they
were encountered

[lanyard]

So, in the '60s blind studies the failure rate was up to 47% and possibly getting worse.

In the 1992 blind study, the failure rate was 15%.

IDing hen pintail/redheads/ringers was difficult.... hmmmm, because they all look the same..... with no shooting option, and no comparison to how often anyone CORRECTLY identified teal.... it would seem the challenge isn't to be able to tell each duck individually on a stick at 20 yards but to tell teal from every other duck, which in my experience is a more common elimination method used in active field identification.... "It's a teal and nothing else, shoot vs. it's something else not a teal, don't shoot..." Or did I miss that everyone thought that hen pintails/red heads/ringers were teal?

Just sayin'.

[get-n-birdy]

Been a bird watcher since I can remember. Always been enamored with their flight, especially waterfowl. The problem is in low light conditions, early in the season, to make 100% sure what a bird is, in a hunting scenario. Put in being tired, an adrenaline rush and other factors, getting a 100% ID on a bird isn't a given, even for a veteran waterfowl hunter. That being said have had CO's miss ID birds in hand, so it isn't just hunters. A lot will really make an effort to positively ID teal. The rest will never care.

[h2ofwlr]

For me, when he mentioned the 80% fialure rate to ID ducks in hand, does any one really think it would be a better % while in flight?. Sorry but his in hand study just confirmed what I already knew.

One of the things to consider is that IA has had a early season any duck season for a while now. All things considered, I think that is the route that the production states should go too. Meaning amend the regs so states can open up anytime after Sept 1st., but perhaps allow only a max of a 9 day season if before Sept 25th. And these days would count against thier 60 days allotment.

Again if I was the Waterfowl Czar here is what I'd do as I think it would the best for all concerned, including highly reducing potential wanton waste of non legal ducks if we had a Teal only season:
Open up our Canada goose season Labor day weekend to field hunting only.
The 2nd weekend have a 2 day any bird duck and goose season.
Close the goose water hunting for 5 days
Have the 1 day YWD the 3rd weekend
Close all water hunting for 6 days
On the 4th weekend have the traditional duck opener.
Do the splits as there has been an over whelming support for it.

[kwackkillncrew]

For me, when he mentioned the 80% fialure rate to ID ducks in hand, does any one really think it would be a better % while in flight?. Sorry but his in hand study just confirmed what I already knew.

One of the things to consider is that IA has had a early season any duck season for a while now. All things considered, I think that is the route that the production states should go too. Meaning amend the regs so states can open up anytime after Sept 1st., but perhaps allow only a max of a 9 day season if before Sept 25th. And these days would count against thier 60 days allotment.

Again if I was the Waterfowl Czar here is what I'd do as I think it would the best for all concerned, including highly reducing potential wanton waste of non legal ducks if we had a Teal only season:
Open up our Canada goose season Labor day weekend to field hunting only.
The 2nd weekend have a 2 day any bird duck and goose season.
Close the goose water hunting for 5 days
Have the 1 day YWD the 3rd weekend
Close all water hunting for 6 days
On the 4th weekend have the traditional duck opener.
Do the splits as there has been an over whelming support for it.

Add 20 more pages to the novel of duck hunting regulations! I m so happy to be out of the mn waterfowl hunting fiasco. I shouldn't need a 4 year degree to understand all that non sense


Sent while partying

Alaska swamp man pro staff

[fowlmind]

Why is that these two states get a teal and wood duck season and it doesn't count against their regular season? They technically are a nesting state with their wood ducks, and are allowed to take them outside of the regular season.

Why are they allowed this over the rest of the flyway? Just one more avenue the MNDNR could go down if they were serious about letting us have a early season.

[h2ofwlr]

Well not sure how those 2 states got it begin with, but frankly I think there is a lot of politics involved as to the favoritism.
And it seems the USFWS are going to do away with the Teal/Woodie season in those 2 states. I think I read recently that the 2 states offered a 5 day T/W season compromise VS the 16 day Teal season and the USFWS said no.

I still think the BEST option for production states is for the USFWS to allow regular season hunting starting Sept 1, or even say Sept 7. I think that the earliest on the current framework that the reg season can open up is Sept 25th (I could be off be a day). But then put in a stipulation that you can have a maximum # of say 5 days in a Liberal framework prior to Sept 25 which would count towards the regular season permitted days and adjust the number of these early days on the population levels. Meaning if Restricted season (30 day), it is not to be offered, but in a Moderation season (45 day) it is 2 days at most in this early period. Basically it would be like an extra split season for the production states in the MS flyway (MN, IA, WI, MI).

And here is why I am pushing for any any bird early season - we up here have a lot of other species to contend with in Sept. While say in AR or LA it is predominantly only teal in Sept. Yes there are local Woodies around down there, but Teal is still far more abundant.

So I'd be content with a 2 day any bird season the 2nd weekend of Sept (the weekend after Labor Day weekend) for MN. We get hunter opportunity, don't have to worry about mistake ducks any different than during the regular duck season, no one would be stomping ducks into the muck, etc. the only trick is for the USFWS to accept it and that'll take guys like Stordts getting on board and pushing for it. The only thing that I dislike is that it likley would not have it set up for the this fall season, but going through the process a limited any duck season for production states could be ready for the 2015 season.

[fowlmind]

I am not apposed to taking two days off the regular season for a early season. Like I said on a other post though. The season should allow the regular daily bag plus a daily of teal.

If we are going to give up regular season days we need to make it worth our while. The other states get extra days which also means extra birds. To ask for this is not out of line. They honestly should ask for double the daily on teal since they will be negotiating and will be shot down on several things.

MN has to step up to the plate with this one. The are slowly taking steps and starting to get away from being so restrictive compared to the other states. Getting rid of the 4 bird daily (when the rest of the flyway was 6), the 1/2 before sunrise start, the daily on wood ducks form 2 to 3. All these were things we were allowed by the feds and MN held us back. Then we finally got the split season as well.

These changes gave us additional opportunities and are probably favored by most. To let another opportunity slip away with out trying it doesn't make sense. If they wanted to they could make it work. Look at the dove season, it had more hurdles than this one and they still have a season going for them.