Tony Toye sentence handed down

[lanyard]

I'll ay Angel's Advocate: guessing it wasn't a 1 bird over "oops" and we forgot to assign birds.

If there was planning, purpose, and coaching of clients, that's why they got popped. Also, like the peeps on Facebook, most people can't keep their mouths shut. Would not surprise me if they didn't brag to Secret Agent Man in an effort to gain client referrals.

Yeah, I know the $25k. Wouldn't be surprised if "industry" didn't pick that up.

[Nershi]

My opinion on this case and these guides depends on the evidence the Feds had and since all pleaded to a lesser charge I don't think we'll ever see it. I read somewhere that tony was planning on fighting it which makes me think they didn't have the greatest evidence. Even if your lawyer thought you could beat it, the chance of losing and being done hunting forever makes the plea a pretty easy decision. These guys can't be too bad if the best they could get on them in a three year investigation is a group bag charge. I agree with mlds that it is a stupid law. Most hunters have been guilty of it at some point even if trying to follow the rule.

I hope the narcs that reported these guys to get the investigation going knew of a more serious violation than group bagging. My guess is they were just jealous hunters.

[maplelakeduckslayer]

Honestly, group bagging should be legal I don't see what the big deal is about that. You hunt more than 2 guys it's almost impossible to know who hits what

BS, Do you really think we are that stupid to buy that line of ignorance?

yeah, but it's not impossible to count how many birds and flip a coin and bag the gun.

Yup. After each volley you MUST (per the USFWS) determine whose birds are whose. The birds MUST be separated per each hunter (no throwing them in a pile is allowed). And you can not "take" my birds than the daily limit.

if you are a G/O you are then indeed held to a different standard - just like businesses are - for they are a business. Think not? Ask a truck driver with a Class A drivers lic what the penalties are for a DWI and did you know that it is far lower threshold?
Ignorance is NOT a valid defense when running a business. As a business you are to be fully aware of the laws and keep from breaking them. If you do the penalties are far greater than a rank and file average Joe citizen.

What was the ignorant part? I've hunted plenty of times with 3 guys, 4 birds hit the water and everyone thinks they hit 2 each. So who hit what?

[lanyard]

I don't disagree re: the field, nor do I disagree that before people leave the field they should have the sorting done. At some point you are a "party" and it comes down to "we shot" X-number of birds.

Toye and friends arguing the grey area and the Feds knowing it likely led to the balance of the plea deal.

Wouldn't be surprised if the Narcs were pissed at the Guide Guild for perceived general ass hat moves......

[Hansen]

BS. I was checked by a federal warden last fall in ND. All our 18 birds were on 2 duck straps between 3 guys, he stopped us when we were walking out. It was a mix of mallards, pintails, gads and widgeon. He counted our ducks and that was it. If I was a guide I would go to this level of extreme but claiming who shot what after each volley seems too clinical for me.

[Bailey]

My opinion on this case and these guides depends on the evidence the Feds had and since all pleaded to a lesser charge I don't think we'll ever see it. I read somewhere that tony was planning on fighting it which makes me think they didn't have the greatest evidence. Even if your lawyer thought you could beat it, the chance of losing and being done hunting forever makes the plea a pretty easy decision. These guys can't be too bad if the best they could get on them in a three year investigation is a group bag charge. I agree with mlds that it is a stupid law. Most hunters have been guilty of it at some point even if trying to follow the rule.

I hope the narcs that reported these guys to get the investigation going knew of a more serious violation than group bagging. My guess is they were just jealous hunters.

Pool 9 is a complete and utter zoo as people go out at midnight or earlier to reserve spots for the next day. Those guides use massive spreads of decoys and probably do better than most so my guess is that they were reported by jealous hunters. I have read on other sites people complaining of the guides for years.

Still seems like a huge waste of money imo for such a minor charge.

[Mallard_maniac]

Still seems like a huge waste of money imo for such a minor charge.

I get what you're saying, and the "weak argument" comment was probably not totally accurate... but regardless of the charge, law enforcement in general is a money losing business if all you see it from is a money made vs money lost stand point.

Figure that full employee wages on the avg deputy or city cop in MN comes in probably somewhere around the neighborhood of $100K per employee (by the time you pay their insurance and retirement). Then factor in cost of fleet for that employee's squad per year.... expecting that police officer to write $125,000 - $150,000 in tickets per year just to cover their wage is unreasonable. Then figure all the admin, building costs, public attorneys, etc... and jail employees that don't issue citations but are still an integral part of making the LE world spin and you're always going to be money behind. But that's why it's tax funded.... as tax payers we still have that non-numeric value on the keeping us safe or in this instance, (even though a 3 year investigation costs hundreds of thousands of dollars) protecting resources.

At the end of the day (similar to the Foiles case) I feel that these guys were used as an example which I don't agree with. Nobody probably disliked JFoiles more than myself but I still don't believe in excessively prosecuting someone just to deter others in the future. They broke the law and got caught, fine but don't hit them any harder than the avg tom, dick and harry doing the same thing. We all know there's thousands of waterfowlers out there that party hunt. I know a couple that have gotten tickets for it.... never (to my knowledge) over $150 or so. As someone else said, all they pinched them on was party hunting and based on this author's clear bias' if there was more he wouldn't have hesitated to publish it. $75K for party hunting???...... I'd say the state made out pretty dang good.

[Bailey]

These guys should have seen prison time. Sure they got a lime time guiding ban but they did worse than Foiles and got no prison. Plus only a two year hunting ban? Come on.


1. THE SHEYENNE VALLEY LODGE, BANNED FOR LIFE

In 2007, the owners of North Dakota’s Sheyenne Valley Lodge — Orland Mertz and his son, Theodore — were charged with a number of federal game violations including the unlawful transportation and sale of wildlife.

The Mertz’s clients would pay between $1,600 and $2,000 for a three-day upland game and waterfowl hunt at Sheyenne Valley Lodge. The guides would take clients on morning and evening waterfowl hunts, even if the clients had shot their limits in the morning. The Mertz’s also instructed their guides to falsify harvest records to cover up the excess number of ducks and geese brought back to the lodge. Most of the clients who flew into Bismark would leave without taking their birds. The guides, then, would pitch the excess duck carcasses into dump pits, where officials found the bodies in various stages of decomposition.

The presiding judge ordered the Mertzes to pay $90,000 in restitution. He also sentenced them to two years of federal probation each, suspended their hunting privileges in North America for two years and banned them from guiding or outfitting in the United States for life. They were also ordered to surrender two shotguns. The case also involved seven guides and 94 hunters from 27 states. The total in fines and restitution amounted to a whopping $120,000.This was the most significant wildlife prosecution in North Dakota’s history.

[h2ofwlr]

BS. I was checked by a federal warden last fall in ND. All our 18 birds were on 2 duck straps between 3 guys, he stopped us when we were walking out. It was a mix of mallards, pintails, gads and widgeon. He counted our ducks and that was it. If I was a guide I would go to this level of extreme but claiming who shot what after each volley seems too clinical for me.

if you encounter an anal Fed CO, you will wish that you had them separated. just saying. And I was told that by both MN and Fed COs.

Something I learned long ago - just do what the Bldg Inspector wants as it's a LOT less headaches and costly in the long run if you do. Same for the COs.

[lanyard]

The $25k in the case would be right IF his parents had named him Tony Toney... THAT would be a federal offense!