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Waterfowlist
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Re: RE: Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:06 pm

Quack wrote:I talked to a DNR guy who was trying to convert a worn out rice farm into a MSM unit and he said U.S. Army Corps of Engineers basically wouldn't let him do the necessary ditch improvements due to wetlands laws. Ridiculous.

Sounds about right the Corps. doesn't mess around unless your doing real estate developments then you can pretty much lay pavement across whatever you want.

Best if you can find land not in a wetland or floodplain and then build the msm area.

Wouldn't they let him if he paid the fees to the wetland bank credit? It's difficult as they basically want you to hire a consulting & engineering firm to draw the plans up for you. Which come on who has the cash....

get-n-birdy
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Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:18 pm

Bailey wrote:Yet we keep pumping millions at Lake Christina trying to bring back the glory days for a few hunters who own private property on the lake. These people must have one heck of a lot of political connections to keep getting all this money. Did the latest drawdown even work to bring in ducks? I haven’t heard a peep about the lake since they declared victory a year or so ago. My guess is five or six years from now we will throw another couple million at Christina again.


X2 totally agree. I've never even talked to anyone who's hunted lake Christina. I've driven by it and seen ducks rafted in the middle.

It's astonishing the amount of red tape you have to jump through for doing anything related to diverting water or creating just a simple pond.

Wasn't it Mr. Lee who took some machinery to a low spot to make a pond and got majorly finned and scolded for it? And it looked like nothing more than a crap weed choked piece of garbage land if I'm remembering right?

I understand it's not priority uno, but when a guy can't even try to make a pond without his a$$ getting ticketed, that's bull chit imo!
DENNIS ANDERSON, Then, about five years ago, in 2020, there were no more ducks in the state,

get-n-birdy
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Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:20 pm

VZM.IMG_20151126_143340.jpg
DENNIS ANDERSON, Then, about five years ago, in 2020, there were no more ducks in the state,

get-n-birdy
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Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:23 pm

My dad's old 80 is on the left. Across the road they did some tiling about every 60'. His only question was why do they need that much tile in the ground? They don't, they just can, so they do it.

Yet a guy can't make a pond for wildlife, go figure.
DENNIS ANDERSON, Then, about five years ago, in 2020, there were no more ducks in the state,

Bailey
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Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:34 pm

Yep it seems despite what they try and say draining and tiling are still pretty easy to do. I see new land being tiled everyone I drive out west. My guess is there is still a net loss of wetlands today

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lanyard
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Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:50 pm

Christina:

Sometimes the hunting is phenomenal. Sometimes it sucks ass. The South basin, from the access, is open to motors and has the best emergent vegetation for hunting.

But if you've never hunted the lake it will be like showing up at any other spot you've never hunted.... learning curve me boy.

Why Christina gets $:

1) Scale~ the coin spent affects not only that basin but every wetland around it. It is a primary roost site in that part of the state. When Christina is healthy, the other waters around it benefit and increase hunting opportunities.

2) Finance~ sure, the rich bastards own a ton of the surrounding land, but they also pile a bunch of cash into the project.

3) "Flag ship"~ the periodic draw down model is proven to be most effective, but not many projects have been studied long term for the resulting affects. This is taking what had become a fishing lake and trying to restore it to a waterfowl lake. And you're talking about several feet of drawdowns at times in an area just shy of 4,000 acres... and that water has to go somewhere... Pelican Lake to Pelican Creek to the Pomme de Terre to the Minnesota.

4) Multi-Agency currency~ the watershed is large and important enough that all agencies have the ability to make some claim in the project. Unlike the ditch job that Corps of Engineers shut down, there is enough water affected everyone comes to the party.

5) Historical Significance~ You may not have hunted, but you know WTH it is, like it or not. Unlike that slough at the corner of 10 and 72 in Big Stone cry where you whack mallards and no one cares, or down the street at Lake Oliver, etc.

6) Interest~ put all that together and it gets enough people with enough interest to get something done. The fight to get pumps installed was long. Pelican Lake Association doesn't want pumps on Christina, it changes their lake ecology (to cleaner, more clear water). Water interests in the Pomme de Terre watershed get quite concerned about several million gallons spilling down their waterway when they are getting rain. It takes a lot of interest to push through all of that. Otherwise it's a Skid Steer out of gas in a cattail slough.

Old guys thinking anything can be returned to it's glory days are a dime a dozen in MN. Not certain why you're surprised that is the "pat on the back" speech they give. They give it every time a decision is made; from no teal season to no spinners to lower hen limits to restrict wood ducks. Everything they do is done in the name of "glory days".

If Christina can be a model, the potentially there can be more positive impacts at lakes like Marsh, Heron, etc. People have jacked up these holes for soooo long only the ducks just high enough in IQ to not sit on municipal poo ponds use them.

The cheapest way to fix any of these lakes: Christina, Talcot, Heron, Marsh, LQP, (insert another 100 here)....... get rid of the dams that the Corps and everyone else put up 100 years ago.

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lanyard
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Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:56 pm

MSM~

For MSM to work on scale in MN my guess is you'll need a private landowner interested enough to run short season crops and install water control for flood/drain. Likely financial assistance available, but they need to be interested enough to fight with the SWCD, BWSR, Corps of Engineers, DNR, etc.

I could see a club being formed that might make this happen. Perhaps it's the more mature version of Fish Felon's "we hate old water fowler's' club. This would be the place to test some of the things we all THINK would make a difference. Hire a bunch of interns, work with the Dr. Afton that did the bluebill study since he seems interested in some level of rock star status and notoriety, and get to work.

Expecting government to fix a problem it itself created is a dead end.

Quack
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Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:02 pm

Waterfowlist wrote:[quote="Quack"]I talked to a DNR guy who was trying to convert a worn out rice farm into a MSM unit and he said U.S. Army Corps of Engineers basically wouldn't let him do the necessary ditch improvements due to wetlands laws. Ridiculous.



Wouldn't they let him if he paid the fees to the wetland bank credit? It's difficult as they basically want you to hire a consulting & engineering firm to draw the plans up for you. Which come on who has the cash....[/quote]

I believe he said something to that affect but A) it's a man made ditch & impoundment! B) why deal with the hassle?

In the same amount of time and money to do that project they can do multiple water control structures at WMAs.

Quack
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Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:04 pm

I'd like to see cooperative agreements with existing rice farms to provide public hunting opps awarded by reservation like the old "sky bust a goose at LQP" system only managed for quality hunting, not quantity of hunters.

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lanyard
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Re: Moist Soil

Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:21 pm

Quack wrote:I'd like to see cooperative agreements with existing rice farms to provide public hunting opps awarded by reservation like the old "sky bust a goose at LQP" system only managed for quality hunting, not quantity of hunters.


That would be an interesting walk-in program. Don't they already have something similar at Carlos Avery?

But..... it's Minnesota.

If it's not managed for the most hunters possible they'll turn it into Youth/Recruitment/Handicap/Veteran blinds.

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