I am bored so I did some searching. Turns out the fed sets the woodcock season framework just like they do with waterfowl. Makes sense since they are migratory birds.
2022 USFWS season framework sept 13-Jan 31, bag limit 3. Up to a 45 day season and they even allow a split in the season.
Clearly the logical thing to do would be to open on grouse opener and run it for the full 45 days straight since they inhabit the same areas and are hunted with the same tactics. Leave it to MNDNR to limit hunter opportunity and not have any common sense. WI has the same framework which surprised me because typically they are more hunter friendly than MN.
Feds set rails and snipes as sept 1st as opener and mn opened those as early as they could and opened on September 1st so why not the GD woodcock?
I’m gonna find someone to bitch at for this. I wonder if I am the first person to bitch at the dnr over a stupid woodcock.
Re: Fall 2022
Woodcock season changed a long time ago. It used to start Sept 1 but continentally they aren’t doing awesome so they tightened it up. Of course, MN being a production state and woodcock being migratory…. Why not take the heat off the locals and wait a week for migrants to arrive?
That’s just classic MN natural resource management right there.
There’s no denying that thousands of woodcock will be spared by opening a week later. The question is… do it matter?
That’s just classic MN natural resource management right there.
There’s no denying that thousands of woodcock will be spared by opening a week later. The question is… do it matter?
Re: Fall 2022
I figured you or hobbydog would be in the know. I don’t think he comes here anymore though.
Absolutely not. I’d guess about half the state has woodcock habitat. I’d doubt even 1% of it sees a hunter or dog the first week of grouse opener. I almost never see grouse or woodcock hunters even leave a cut trail or logging road. Most of them ride around on atv’s or in trucks and pretend they are hunting and that’s not a very effective method for woodcock. The things are dumb as can be. It’s not like we are smarting them up before the season.
More MN stupid.
Quack wrote:
There’s no denying that thousands of woodcock will be spared by opening a week later. The question is… do it matter?
Absolutely not. I’d guess about half the state has woodcock habitat. I’d doubt even 1% of it sees a hunter or dog the first week of grouse opener. I almost never see grouse or woodcock hunters even leave a cut trail or logging road. Most of them ride around on atv’s or in trucks and pretend they are hunting and that’s not a very effective method for woodcock. The things are dumb as can be. It’s not like we are smarting them up before the season.
More MN stupid.
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Fish Felon
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Re: Fall 2022
The DNR is the worst ran department of the worst state government----We are on our own for managing our natural resources.
You guys need to realize that there is literally nothing similar between any of the jobs you work and the jobs the people in the DNR work. Expecting competence from them along the same lines of what is expected from you when getting paid for your labor. Your sky is blue and theirs is....who the fukc knows...they live in a different universe than us.
What does the common man do when the arm of a bloated, over-reaching, and tyrannical government that is supposed to manage the natural resources in a manner that creates abundances that are as easily distributed to whoever wants to take them tuns on you? Manages the resources by not managing them, mismanagement in their efforts, and due to an unhindered belief in their psuedo-science being something it's not (credible) and a culture of negativity and wanting to be as lazy as possible.....are doing everything they can to restrict you from taking what belongs to you.
Never forget the natural resources of our state aren't owned by the DNR.....they're just errand boys....some shitty help we're paying to put on an outfit and waiter our party on the large spread we own. They're supposed to sit behind the bar and serve us our drinks, bring us our food, park our cars, and clean up our mess before clocking out, collecting their pay, and getting some bus fare so they can get the fukc off our property and go back home to wherever the fukc it is they came from.
Instead of working to bolster game populations?
These fukcs sit around thinking of all the ways an imaginary problem (climate change) has already ruined and will inevitably destroy. It's supposed to go up a fukcing degree over the next hundred years and now all our wildlife will be gone or barely hanging on---that's the "work" the DNR is getting done on our behalf....telling us how fukced everything is, when it's not, because then they don't have to do anything.
It isn't animal rights activists that'll end hunting......it's the climate change crowd. They truly believe that any animal killed from hunting or fishing is the same as hunting the last dinosaurs. How dare we kill any number of any species when they're all declining and will be threatened of becoming extinct in less than a generation from the horror of climate change?
That's what these fukcers think, and guess who is one entity that keeps telling everyone this bullshit?
The DNR
Fukc 'Em. They've chosen to quit their jobs.
They've chosen to restrict our access to our own shit.....
Over-Regulations = Access Restrictions
When fifty years ago you could buy a license and then partake in whatever season you bought a license for......
......look, read the regulations to hunt or fish anything from 1943, 1964, 1988 and Today.....and if you think having to read, know, and comply with the absurd amount of bullshit we deal with today as Sportsmen isn't extremely limiting our access to our own property that is our natural resources?
Then you're a fukcing moron.
The DNR isn't out there working to make things better for when you go afield, or for there to be more of whatever you're looking to harvest around for when you go.....
.....they're looking to protect our resources from ourselves. They believe the world is going to hell in a hand basket.....and they want to stop you from making things worse for the poor, diminishing animals man-kind is responsible for dragging down to our shared demise.
So what is the obvious solution here?
I would've shot every fukcing woodcock I had a crack at since they belong to me.....just like they belong to you. Go and take your shit. Don't let these fukcers stop you from getting your own shit.
They're woodcock.....if you can't figure out how to poach some woodcock.....Holy fukc....there's no hope.
You're hunting a bird that lives in the densest most god-awful thick scrub brush that used to be forest known to man. It's not like you're out on the prairie.....no one can see you shooting them. No one would care if they did. The DNR are a bunch of lazy fukcs and are never going to go into the woods to check you.....fukc....maybe they'd walk down a wide open logging road to get out of their brand new $50K to $80K pickups to stretch their legs for a hundred yards, but that's it. The only very small chance of being checked is if you're at a popular/well-known public area, a CO drives down the road while you're hunting, see your vehicle, and it's close enough to when they think you will be back where they'll sit and wait for you to come out of the woods at the end of your hunt in order to check you.....because they need to check one or two people so they can say they checked "opening weekend grouse hunters" in their weekly report paragraph write-up of what they did for all the money we're paying them.
Put the woodcock you shoot in a gallon ziploc freezer bag, tuck them under a log, cover them with some leaves, do any number of ways to that'd take ten seconds to conceal them right before someone sitting in a truck parked next to your vehicle would be able to see you. Walk to your vehicle....make sure the coast is clear....load up all your shit and be ready to go....and then "have to take a shit" and walk back into the woods to retrieve your birds. No one is going to arrive in the time it takes to go get your shit....your wildlife....walking a little ways out from where you're parked and back. If you're really worried about shit then shove them up your shirt or down your pants or some shit. It's not like they actually give a fukc beyond having an item they can list in what they did. I could poach woodcock all day every day and never give even one little fukc about getting caught.
I almost stepped on the first clutch of newly hatched woodcock I've ever seen this past spring. Guess where they were?
In the middle of the road I chainsawed, cleared, and burned. They were in bare ground covered by a thin layer of leaves (mainly Oak) that had blown over what would've otherwise been bare, open, dry ground....just a tiny strip of that going through the woods a hundred yards and a woodcock hen used it and hatched a bunch of chicks.
What are called "woods" or "forest" in this state look absolutely nothing like what they did anytime in history. The forests back when there was more wildlife were very open....probably less than a tenth of the tree density....none of the underbrush that exists now on the ground. Our forests used to be like walking through a park....
....but removing the element of fire for over a hundred years and letting them grow into shit so thick sunlight doesn't get though, the ground is nothing but brush filled dead fall that never dries out, and you can't walk through it.....
...why in the fukc would there be more of anything living in the over-grown awful shit we ruined that were once wildlife rich landscapes?
DNR can't even grasp or fathom what I'm talking about.....so they sure as shit ain't going to get it to where they might put in some honest work for their wages to fix it, for a change.
You guys need to realize that there is literally nothing similar between any of the jobs you work and the jobs the people in the DNR work. Expecting competence from them along the same lines of what is expected from you when getting paid for your labor. Your sky is blue and theirs is....who the fukc knows...they live in a different universe than us.
What does the common man do when the arm of a bloated, over-reaching, and tyrannical government that is supposed to manage the natural resources in a manner that creates abundances that are as easily distributed to whoever wants to take them tuns on you? Manages the resources by not managing them, mismanagement in their efforts, and due to an unhindered belief in their psuedo-science being something it's not (credible) and a culture of negativity and wanting to be as lazy as possible.....are doing everything they can to restrict you from taking what belongs to you.
Never forget the natural resources of our state aren't owned by the DNR.....they're just errand boys....some shitty help we're paying to put on an outfit and waiter our party on the large spread we own. They're supposed to sit behind the bar and serve us our drinks, bring us our food, park our cars, and clean up our mess before clocking out, collecting their pay, and getting some bus fare so they can get the fukc off our property and go back home to wherever the fukc it is they came from.
Instead of working to bolster game populations?
These fukcs sit around thinking of all the ways an imaginary problem (climate change) has already ruined and will inevitably destroy. It's supposed to go up a fukcing degree over the next hundred years and now all our wildlife will be gone or barely hanging on---that's the "work" the DNR is getting done on our behalf....telling us how fukced everything is, when it's not, because then they don't have to do anything.
It isn't animal rights activists that'll end hunting......it's the climate change crowd. They truly believe that any animal killed from hunting or fishing is the same as hunting the last dinosaurs. How dare we kill any number of any species when they're all declining and will be threatened of becoming extinct in less than a generation from the horror of climate change?
That's what these fukcers think, and guess who is one entity that keeps telling everyone this bullshit?
The DNR
Fukc 'Em. They've chosen to quit their jobs.
They've chosen to restrict our access to our own shit.....
Over-Regulations = Access Restrictions
When fifty years ago you could buy a license and then partake in whatever season you bought a license for......
......look, read the regulations to hunt or fish anything from 1943, 1964, 1988 and Today.....and if you think having to read, know, and comply with the absurd amount of bullshit we deal with today as Sportsmen isn't extremely limiting our access to our own property that is our natural resources?
Then you're a fukcing moron.
The DNR isn't out there working to make things better for when you go afield, or for there to be more of whatever you're looking to harvest around for when you go.....
.....they're looking to protect our resources from ourselves. They believe the world is going to hell in a hand basket.....and they want to stop you from making things worse for the poor, diminishing animals man-kind is responsible for dragging down to our shared demise.
So what is the obvious solution here?
I would've shot every fukcing woodcock I had a crack at since they belong to me.....just like they belong to you. Go and take your shit. Don't let these fukcers stop you from getting your own shit.
They're woodcock.....if you can't figure out how to poach some woodcock.....Holy fukc....there's no hope.
You're hunting a bird that lives in the densest most god-awful thick scrub brush that used to be forest known to man. It's not like you're out on the prairie.....no one can see you shooting them. No one would care if they did. The DNR are a bunch of lazy fukcs and are never going to go into the woods to check you.....fukc....maybe they'd walk down a wide open logging road to get out of their brand new $50K to $80K pickups to stretch their legs for a hundred yards, but that's it. The only very small chance of being checked is if you're at a popular/well-known public area, a CO drives down the road while you're hunting, see your vehicle, and it's close enough to when they think you will be back where they'll sit and wait for you to come out of the woods at the end of your hunt in order to check you.....because they need to check one or two people so they can say they checked "opening weekend grouse hunters" in their weekly report paragraph write-up of what they did for all the money we're paying them.
Put the woodcock you shoot in a gallon ziploc freezer bag, tuck them under a log, cover them with some leaves, do any number of ways to that'd take ten seconds to conceal them right before someone sitting in a truck parked next to your vehicle would be able to see you. Walk to your vehicle....make sure the coast is clear....load up all your shit and be ready to go....and then "have to take a shit" and walk back into the woods to retrieve your birds. No one is going to arrive in the time it takes to go get your shit....your wildlife....walking a little ways out from where you're parked and back. If you're really worried about shit then shove them up your shirt or down your pants or some shit. It's not like they actually give a fukc beyond having an item they can list in what they did. I could poach woodcock all day every day and never give even one little fukc about getting caught.
I almost stepped on the first clutch of newly hatched woodcock I've ever seen this past spring. Guess where they were?
In the middle of the road I chainsawed, cleared, and burned. They were in bare ground covered by a thin layer of leaves (mainly Oak) that had blown over what would've otherwise been bare, open, dry ground....just a tiny strip of that going through the woods a hundred yards and a woodcock hen used it and hatched a bunch of chicks.
What are called "woods" or "forest" in this state look absolutely nothing like what they did anytime in history. The forests back when there was more wildlife were very open....probably less than a tenth of the tree density....none of the underbrush that exists now on the ground. Our forests used to be like walking through a park....
....but removing the element of fire for over a hundred years and letting them grow into shit so thick sunlight doesn't get though, the ground is nothing but brush filled dead fall that never dries out, and you can't walk through it.....
...why in the fukc would there be more of anything living in the over-grown awful shit we ruined that were once wildlife rich landscapes?
DNR can't even grasp or fathom what I'm talking about.....so they sure as shit ain't going to get it to where they might put in some honest work for their wages to fix it, for a change.
Hate Speech is Free Speech
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"Ogaa-Gichi-Manidoo"
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Drunk_Dynasty
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Re: Fall 2022
Yah no rules really worked out great for the Buffalo!
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Fish Felon
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Re: Fall 2022
Drunk_Dynasty wrote:Yah no rules really worked out great for the Buffalo!
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Haha! Nice troll attempt....I'll give it a B+
There was two seconds where I thought you were being serious before realizing,
"No way this mofo is dumb enough to not know the plow killed the Buffalo."
See.....what determines whether game will be around are two things.....
1. Habitat
2. Weather
That's it. Mortality isn't a big deal. It's a normal part of what impacts every wildlife population. Sometimes more shit dies than it does in other years....and there's less of them initially, but then more later because when you got more available room to recruit new wildlife into because it's currently vacant guess what happens?
Recruitment goes up.
For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.
So when mortality is low guess what happens?
More initial animals but less of them later because instead of having available room to recruit them into that's vacant?
It's been occupied by those same animals, that have grown older and bigger on average than they normally do, and they've been consuming all the shit they need to live in excess down to where it's depleted.....
So you're left with an aging population that's over consumption is now negatively effecting other populations within any shared ecosystem.
This isn't that complicated. You can't stockpile wildlife and promote managing for old/aging populations and not have it fukc shit up.
You should try to bring some Buffalo back.....maybe push the DNR to trap and transport some from Yellowstone back onto their old range of parts of Western MN.....Southern MN wasn't prairie....it was a fukcing swamp. So transplant some Buffalo to NW MN and get some bison herds going again. After all it was harvest that killed them off.....so according to you, all that needs to be done is introduce some bison back to their range and as long as you make sure hunters don't shoot any.....there'll be fast herds amongst the fields, farms, fencerows, and giant grid of raised roads......great bison habitat....just needs some bison added that don't get shot.
Hate Speech is Free Speech
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"Ogaa-Gichi-Manidoo"
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kwackkillncrew
- Sour Toe Connoisseur
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Re: Fall 2022
If you truly think the market hunters and fur trade wasnt the biggest reason they got wiped out your nuts. Sure the introduction of infrastructure didnt help but they were having problems before that. It seems like in your eyes it doesnt matter how much fish/animals people kill they cant effect the population.
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Drunk_Dynasty
- Mergie Marauder
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Re: Fall 2022
R u okay Felon? You rants have been a bit… more bitter than normal. Asking seriously.
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Re: Fall 2022
I emailed the DNR and got a response in italics below.
1. We modified the federal framework a few years ago to allow basically MN, WI, or MI to open woodcock with their small game seasons/grouse. But, we don't have a great way to get input from woodcock hunters to see if they prefer that. But, I think it will be included on an upcoming small game hunter survey.
This makes me think that the feds used to make us wait until duck opener but changed it earlier but MN didn't move their season earlier. I don't know why we need hunter input to make the change that is the obvious choice based on the migration. The DNR does too many opinion polls instead of just using science based management.
2. There's another group of avid woodcock hunters that hunt further south in MN that prefer we don't open earlier as they enjoy hunting later around Mille Lacs WMA, etc. States aren't allowed to us zones for woodcock.
In almost all years most or all of the woodcock are gone come the first week of November. If it had opened this past weekend the 45 season would get us through October. Instead we get a week in November that is far past the peak.
3. A simpler fix to satisfy all would be to add days to the current framework but the FWS wasn't very interested in that.
4. I suspect that in the near future, we will move the opener earlier to match our small game/grouse opener. There's no shortage of woodcock around in mid-Sept.
This is positive to see it may be changed.
We could have easily filled our woodcock limits had it been open this weekend. I bet we jumped 50+ and we only hunted a few hours each day. My dog gave me the WTF look several times this weekend when I didn't shoot. I was tempted but restrained. Saw pretty decent grouse numbers too.
1. We modified the federal framework a few years ago to allow basically MN, WI, or MI to open woodcock with their small game seasons/grouse. But, we don't have a great way to get input from woodcock hunters to see if they prefer that. But, I think it will be included on an upcoming small game hunter survey.
This makes me think that the feds used to make us wait until duck opener but changed it earlier but MN didn't move their season earlier. I don't know why we need hunter input to make the change that is the obvious choice based on the migration. The DNR does too many opinion polls instead of just using science based management.
2. There's another group of avid woodcock hunters that hunt further south in MN that prefer we don't open earlier as they enjoy hunting later around Mille Lacs WMA, etc. States aren't allowed to us zones for woodcock.
In almost all years most or all of the woodcock are gone come the first week of November. If it had opened this past weekend the 45 season would get us through October. Instead we get a week in November that is far past the peak.
3. A simpler fix to satisfy all would be to add days to the current framework but the FWS wasn't very interested in that.
4. I suspect that in the near future, we will move the opener earlier to match our small game/grouse opener. There's no shortage of woodcock around in mid-Sept.
This is positive to see it may be changed.
We could have easily filled our woodcock limits had it been open this weekend. I bet we jumped 50+ and we only hunted a few hours each day. My dog gave me the WTF look several times this weekend when I didn't shoot. I was tempted but restrained. Saw pretty decent grouse numbers too.
Re: Fall 2022
Who signed the response you got?
I don’t care one way or the other about woodcock.
They should make it illegal to carry a gun or a dog on an atv. Our culture is so fkd up… we are so Fkn rich and lazy in this country even dogs ride on atv’s instead of walking or running. This is a general observation from working in the woods as well as what goes on in my neighborhood and what I see when I’m out and about. Man I hate atv’s.
I don’t care one way or the other about woodcock.
They should make it illegal to carry a gun or a dog on an atv. Our culture is so fkd up… we are so Fkn rich and lazy in this country even dogs ride on atv’s instead of walking or running. This is a general observation from working in the woods as well as what goes on in my neighborhood and what I see when I’m out and about. Man I hate atv’s.
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