Moist Soil

[Bailey]

Christina:

Sometimes the hunting is phenomenal. Sometimes it sucks ass. The South basin, from the access, is open to motors and has the best emergent vegetation for hunting.

But if you've never hunted the lake it will be like showing up at any other spot you've never hunted.... learning curve me boy.

Why Christina gets $:

1) Scale~ the coin spent affects not only that basin but every wetland around it. It is a primary roost site in that part of the state. When Christina is healthy, the other waters around it benefit and increase hunting opportunities.

2) Finance~ sure, the rich bastards own a ton of the surrounding land, but they also pile a bunch of cash into the project.

3) "Flag ship"~ the periodic draw down model is proven to be most effective, but not many projects have been studied long term for the resulting affects. This is taking what had become a fishing lake and trying to restore it to a waterfowl lake. And you're talking about several feet of drawdowns at times in an area just shy of 4,000 acres... and that water has to go somewhere... Pelican Lake to Pelican Creek to the Pomme de Terre to the Minnesota.

4) Multi-Agency currency~ the watershed is large and important enough that all agencies have the ability to make some claim in the project. Unlike the ditch job that Corps of Engineers shut down, there is enough water affected everyone comes to the party.

5) Historical Significance~ You may not have hunted, but you know WTH it is, like it or not. Unlike that slough at the corner of 10 and 72 in Big Stone cry where you whack mallards and no one cares, or down the street at Lake Oliver, etc.

6) Interest~ put all that together and it gets enough people with enough interest to get something done. The fight to get pumps installed was long. Pelican Lake Association doesn't want pumps on Christina, it changes their lake ecology (to cleaner, more clear water). Water interests in the Pomme de Terre watershed get quite concerned about several million gallons spilling down their waterway when they are getting rain. It takes a lot of interest to push through all of that. Otherwise it's a Skid Steer out of gas in a cattail slough.

Old guys thinking anything can be returned to it's glory days are a dime a dozen in MN. Not certain why you're surprised that is the "pat on the back" speech they give. They give it every time a decision is made; from no teal season to no spinners to lower hen limits to restrict wood ducks. Everything they do is done in the name of "glory days".

If Christina can be a model, the potentially there can be more positive impacts at lakes like Marsh, Heron, etc. People have jacked up these holes for soooo long only the ducks just high enough in IQ to not sit on municipal poo ponds use them.

The cheapest way to fix any of these lakes: Christina, Talcot, Heron, Marsh, LQP, (insert another 100 here)....... get rid of the dams that the Corps and everyone else put up 100 years ago.

Good old Marsh lake. Another carp infested mud hole that hunters just flock to waiting for the one good migration day hunt each year. I don't get it.

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[Bailey]

Christina:

Sometimes the hunting is phenomenal. Sometimes it sucks ass. The South basin, from the access, is open to motors and has the best emergent vegetation for hunting.

But if you've never hunted the lake it will be like showing up at any other spot you've never hunted.... learning curve me boy.

Why Christina gets $:

1) Scale~ the coin spent affects not only that basin but every wetland around it. It is a primary roost site in that part of the state. When Christina is healthy, the other waters around it benefit and increase hunting opportunities.

2) Finance~ sure, the rich bastards own a ton of the surrounding land, but they also pile a bunch of cash into the project.

3) "Flag ship"~ the periodic draw down model is proven to be most effective, but not many projects have been studied long term for the resulting affects. This is taking what had become a fishing lake and trying to restore it to a waterfowl lake. And you're talking about several feet of drawdowns at times in an area just shy of 4,000 acres... and that water has to go somewhere... Pelican Lake to Pelican Creek to the Pomme de Terre to the Minnesota.

4) Multi-Agency currency~ the watershed is large and important enough that all agencies have the ability to make some claim in the project. Unlike the ditch job that Corps of Engineers shut down, there is enough water affected everyone comes to the party.

5) Historical Significance~ You may not have hunted, but you know WTH it is, like it or not. Unlike that slough at the corner of 10 and 72 in Big Stone cry where you whack mallards and no one cares, or down the street at Lake Oliver, etc.

6) Interest~ put all that together and it gets enough people with enough interest to get something done. The fight to get pumps installed was long. Pelican Lake Association doesn't want pumps on Christina, it changes their lake ecology (to cleaner, more clear water). Water interests in the Pomme de Terre watershed get quite concerned about several million gallons spilling down their waterway when they are getting rain. It takes a lot of interest to push through all of that. Otherwise it's a Skid Steer out of gas in a cattail slough.

Old guys thinking anything can be returned to it's glory days are a dime a dozen in MN. Not certain why you're surprised that is the "pat on the back" speech they give. They give it every time a decision is made; from no teal season to no spinners to lower hen limits to restrict wood ducks. Everything they do is done in the name of "glory days".

If Christina can be a model, the potentially there can be more positive impacts at lakes like Marsh, Heron, etc. People have jacked up these holes for soooo long only the ducks just high enough in IQ to not sit on municipal poo ponds use them.

The cheapest way to fix any of these lakes: Christina, Talcot, Heron, Marsh, LQP, (insert another 100 here)....... get rid of the dams that the Corps and everyone else put up 100 years ago.

Seems to me every time they dump a couple million into Christina some ducks come back for a few years and then it goes to crap again. Every time they say this time it will work and it never does long term. At what point do you finally just move on and select areas that have a high probability for success.

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[Quack]

[quote="Quack"]I'd like to see cooperative agreements with existing rice farms to provide public hunting opps awarded by reservation like the old "sky bust a goose at LQP" system only managed for quality hunting, not quantity of hunters.

That would be an interesting walk-in program. Don't they already have something similar at Carlos Avery?

But..... it's Minnesota.

If it's not managed for the most hunters possible they'll turn it into Youth/Recruitment/Handicap/Veteran blinds.[/quote]


Minnesota grows more cultivated wild rice then any other state. That is moist soil management so the opportunity is there if someone wanted to administer it.

Add more of Carlos Avery, plus the MSM units at LQP, Thief, & Roseau River that are currently inside sanctuaries and it could be an awesome opportunity.

[lanyard]

Bailey, any funds at this point are going to maintaining water levels, not crashing helicopters on a rotenone dump.

Pump maintenance is the largest expense.

I get the money pit argument, but no one has ever considered how much revenue was generated from the degradation of the wetlands.

From property values and taxes to Ag to energy to recreation to roadways and in the case of the rivers sewage treatment and shipping.

Then let's throw in the invasive species, particularly the carp, that were introduced for sport angling by the government and for water treatment in aquaculture.

The problem is the price tag is not being paid for by the people taking the gain.

[Waterfowlist]

An area as small as 5 acres is capable of attracting hundreds of ducks with msm year after year. Doesn't take much

[lanyard]

Anything under 10 stays out of Corps of Engineers jurisdiction.

Would be a great project for local sportsman group to partner on, particularly on a WIA or other area that isn't seen as being pulled from the tax rolls.

[Waterfowlist]

Anything under 10 stays out of Corps of Engineers jurisdiction.

Would be a great project for local sportsman group to partner on, particularly on a WIA or other area that isn't seen as being pulled from the tax rolls.

Not sure if that's the case. They were heavily involved in a project I was in on years ago. I think mostly due to its classification as a floodplain. If that is the rule now that would make things easier.

[Hansen]

If the DNR purchased a plot of land around Marsh, Talcot, Fergus, etc and managed it for moist soil it would be a duck meca. It would provide so much more and better opportunity for hunting. Create 40-50 acre sections, with dikes, and a "refuge" area flooded with smart weed it would be a duck slaughter house. There was a 2 acre section of water near my house in Shakopee that had a bunch of smart weed and it flooded out in August. It was cover in mallards until they feed it out in late October, honkers and other fowl.

[greatwhitehunter3!]

I need to read up on moist soil again.

[lanyard]

Anything under 10 stays out of Corps of Engineers jurisdiction.

Would be a great project for local sportsman group to partner on, particularly on a WIA or other area that isn't seen as being pulled from the tax rolls.

Not sure if that's the case. They were heavily involved in a project I was in on years ago. I think mostly due to its classification as a floodplain. If that is the rule now that would make things easier.

Floodplain will be treated differently. The 10 acre rule, when I became aware of it in the late '90s, was in regards to drainage. Farmer drained a wetland, didn't pull a permit. High water mark put it over 10 acres, or some other similar thing. It came down the farm owner thinking no one would notice and Government agencies fighting over who was in charge of making the farm owner beholden to the law.

Regardless, it's always easier to say 'No' to a new project than to say yes. If someone cares enough to prove you wrong by investing the time and money to prove you wrong, then you have the proof you need to say 'yes' and not get fired.

In Minnesota MSM won't get far until someone can be given all the credit. When the Old Timers "discover" it, then tell DA to write an article, etc... then we'll get MSM. Until then, it's just more demanded by the people that already shoot enough ducks and a couple of Wildlife Managers that won't work for the DNR very long.