Tony Toye sentence handed down

[h2ofwlr]

Evidently he pleaded guilty this summer which I didn't know about.

http://www.outdoornews.com/2017/10/02/w ... two-years/

Waterfowl guide Tony Toye fined $25,000 and kicked out of Mississippi River refuge for two years
October 2, 2017
Tim Eisele

Two hunting guides were sentenced in the federal courthouse in Madison, and a third will be sentenced Oct. 18. (Photo by Tim Eisele)

Madison — Mississippi River waterfowl guide Tony Toye, 49, of Boscobel, was sentenced Sept. 29 for violating the Lacey Act by allowing a hunter to exceed his daily bag limit in 2013.

Toye got a $25,000 fine and a two-year ban from hunting, guiding and being on the Upper Mississippi River National Fish and Wildlife Refuge. Matt Raley, 33, a waterfowl guide from Arbor Vitae who also hunts the big river, received an identical sentence Aug. 17.

A third guide, Jeremy Schreiner, 34, of Durand, has agreed to the same plea bargain and will be sentenced Oct. 18.

All three, plus another guide from the Green Bay area, guided undercover U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service special agents during the 2012 and 2013 waterfowl hunting seasons. According to court records, Toye, Raley and Schreiner allowed the agents to group bag and exceed their daily bag limit.

By pleading guilty, the guides avoided charges that could have climbed to a felony and trials by jury.

The guides were singled out because the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service received complaints from hunters that the guides were allowing their clients to violate laws.

Though defense attorneys tried to indicate that it was difficult for guides to know exactly who shot what duck and that a single bird over the limit was relatively minor, it was clear from conversations recorded by undercover agents that the guides encouraged hunters to continue shooting.

Waterfowl hunters following the cases say the sentence is a “slap on the wrist,” as the potential sentence could have included a $100,000 fine and one year in prison.

All guides who hunt in the refuge sign permit applications indicating they will follow the rules.

Raley and Toye will be able to guide elsewhere in Wisconsin and other states this fall and winter. They did not lose their state hunting license.

It remains to be seen in 2019 whether the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will considers the guides’ 2017 convictions in deciding whether to issue them a new guide license. The guides will be eligible to apply for a refuge hunting permit in ’19.

Hunting guides should be held to a higher standard, and state and federal natural resource agencies need to begin holding guides to that standard.

Lest we forget:

Group bagging is illegal.
Guides have a “golden ticket” to make money from our natural resources.
Guides sign their names to applications saying they will follow all state and federal laws.

[Bailey]

This is another complete and utter waste of taxpayer money for a slap on the wrist. It is my understanding even though they cannot guide on the river guides they employ could still guide. Plus they can continue to guide in other areas and states.
The amount of money spent on this to get a $75,000 fine for all three was probably in the hundreds of thousands at least. The reason laws keep getting broken is because the penalties handed out are a complete joke.

[maplelakeduckslayer]

Honestly, group bagging should be legal I don't see what the big deal is about that. You hunt more than 2 guys it's almost impossible to know who hits what

[lanyard]

Honestly, group bagging should be legal I don't see what the big deal is about that. You hunt more than 2 guys it's almost impossible to know who hits what

yeah, but it's not impossible to count how many birds and flip a coin and bag the gun.

I would guess the bigger issue is the guides let the hunters "shoot on their credit" OR did a fair more share of hitting and dropped the ".... can't ever tell who hits what....." as a CYA statement with a wink-wink nudge-nudge.

It seems like a long way to go for the monetary fine. Would have rather they got snipped on the guiding and loss of license than the $25k.

[cstemig]

That is a slap on the wrist...losing their guiding license would have been more appropriate. The expenses for prosecuting a case never seem to balance out with the fines/penalties imposed.

[Hansen]

"Group bagging is illegal" is the dumbest thing ever. If a flock of 10 mallards comes right in the kill hole and a group of 3 guys open up and knock down 4 who claims what? I don't pheasant hunt but isn't party hunting legal?

If the guide was over the limit, encourage his clients to keep shooting and it was recorded that fine is a joke!

[Mallard_maniac]

I'll play devils advocate. Personally I think the fine(s) are completely acceptable, if not a little on the steep side. In all these instances I try to put aside the self-righteousness in me and look at the bigger picture and what resources were actually robbed of us. The simple answer is none.... does it matter to the ducks or the rest of the general public which license the 6 ducks were killed under? Probably not If there's 6 guys and they can have 36 ducks total what excessive harm is being done if one person shoots all 36 or each person takes their personal limit of 6? I'm not advocating party hunting or breaking the law, but these guys made a mistake... got caught and are paying (in my opinion) a hefty hefty fine.... 25K each... let that marinate and think about how much money $25K is. The answer is $75K for party hunt ducks is a considerable amount of money... This goes to court and they face felony charges? Over ducks? Say they win on a technicality and the state sees zero $$$?

For some reason, at the end of the day hunters want to see other hunters that break the law rot in a jail cell. Incapable of mistakes themselves, its easy for someone to jump up on a soap box and call for these guys' head on a stake. Start the witch hunt.... The good Lord knows I've made more mistakes in my life than I care to even think about. I'm glad I didn't have this many perfect citizens calling for the death penalty on me when I screwed up.

Also Law enforcement is a money losing business if you try to think about money spent vs. money gained... that's a weak argument at best.

[h2ofwlr]

Honestly, group bagging should be legal I don't see what the big deal is about that. You hunt more than 2 guys it's almost impossible to know who hits what

BS, Do you really think we are that stupid to buy that line of ignorance?

yeah, but it's not impossible to count how many birds and flip a coin and bag the gun.

Yup. After each volley you MUST (per the USFWS) determine whose birds are whose. The birds MUST be separated per each hunter (no throwing them in a pile is allowed). And you can not "take" my birds than the daily limit.

if you are a G/O you are then indeed held to a different standard - just like businesses are - for they are a business. Think not? Ask a truck driver with a Class A drivers lic what the penalties are for a DWI and did you know that it is far lower threshold?
Ignorance is NOT a valid defense when running a business. As a business you are to be fully aware of the laws and keep from breaking them. If you do the penalties are far greater than a rank and file average Joe citizen.

[Bailey]

I'll play devils advocate. Personally I think the fine(s) are completely acceptable, if not a little on the steep side. In all these instances I try to put aside the self-righteousness in me and look at the bigger picture and what resources were actually robbed of us. The simple answer is none.... does it matter to the ducks or the rest of the general public which license the 6 ducks were killed under? Probably not If there's 6 guys and they can have 36 ducks total what excessive harm is being done if one person shoots all 36 or each person takes their personal limit of 6? I'm not advocating party hunting or breaking the law, but these guys made a mistake... got caught and are paying (in my opinion) a hefty hefty fine.... 25K each... let that marinate and think about how much money $25K is. The answer is $75K for party hunt ducks is a considerable amount of money... This goes to court and they face felony charges? Over ducks? Say they win on a technicality and the state sees zero $$$?

For some reason, at the end of the day hunters want to see other hunters that break the law rot in a jail cell. Incapable of mistakes themselves, its easy for someone to jump up on a soap box and call for these guys' head on a stake. Start the witch hunt.... The good Lord knows I've made more mistakes in my life than I care to even think about. I'm glad I didn't have this many perfect citizens calling for the death penalty on me when I screwed up.

Also Law enforcement is a money losing business if you try to think about money spent vs. money gained... that's a weak argument at best.

Watching our tax money wasted down a black hole is not a weak argument unless you are going after a really big fish. This was a weak case to begin with for all the time, money and effort spent on it I would hope they would be going after much more severe violators. This case went on for like three years and imo there are bigger fish to fry when spending our money like that.

In all honestly you could basically go after almost every guide by the standards of this case. Those pictures I see on the internet with 10 man limits of geese and ducks in Canada are all in one big pile. Do you think with 10 guns blazing at once they know who shot what bird? There is no way in hell.

[Bailey]

I am not really sure how you get the pictures to post on here but I just saw a picture on Facebook of 12 guys with 240 snow geese. None of them had their 20 next to them. They were all standing behind the pile of geese. So can Mr. Warden walk up and say he bob show me which 20 are yours? I don't see why not.