Anybody a Forced Induction Expert?

[maplelakeduckslayer]

Still trying to get my 2011 F150 Ecoboost running 100%...now at 77k miles on the truck.

Dealer performed several TSB's for condensation in the IC which did nothing but hurt performance.

Me changing plugs and gapping them lower helped immensely with spark blowout/performance. Then switched to a high performance silver racing plug, coupled with an aftermarket tuning device. This brought back some of the power, but the tuner says my truck is the most finicky, hard to tune Ecoboost he has ever dealt with. After a dozen tunes it is still not 100%.

Part of the problem is the PCV system which is present in a lot vehicles...and vents crankcase vapors(fuel, oil, water) back into the intake stream. These contaminants are basically coating the whole intake and some are pooling in the IC. Adding these contaminates to the intake stream decreases octane and obviously coats everything with oil. Possibly leads to dirty valves. A catch can is one remedy that I will probably try eventually, but what I did below costs nothing.

To try and remedy that, I drilled a 1/16" hole in my factory IC, at the bottom near the outlet pipe. This came out:


Oil mixed with water. This IC was installed as a TSB to eliminate condensation. It isn't doing that...and is also hurting performance as Ford basically installed a bunch of blocking into the IC internally(I confirmed with a boroscope) to raise temps in the IC so condensation can not form. The other issue I have noticed is the drivers side hot pipe wiggling up off the IC.

I am curious if the added blocking is restricting the flow enough within the IC that the increased boost from the aftermarket tune cannot be processed, and is pushing the inlet pipe off the IC. I also get a see saw effect with boost when I hit the accelerator...it will hit 18 PSI, drop to 15 PSI, then level off at 16-17 PSI. I am wondering if that blocking could be causing this? The IC just cannot handle the volume of air? With less aggressive tunes or the factory tune, I do not get the see saw effect...truck just severely lacks the power it once had.

Increasing the IC temps increases the charge air temps and can increase the chance for detonation, etc with a more aggressive tune.

I am planning an aftermarket IC real soon and hoping that fixes some of the problem, but just trying to break this down and figure it out for my own curiosity.

[Stute Slap]

Hammer is a Forced "insertion" expert.

[get-n-birdy]

Interesting?

I've heard both good and bad about eco boost. My oldest kid is a major gear head, worked in a shop where the mechanics where split on ford's eco boost system. He has re built and worked on a lot of rotary turbos. He thinks the ford's are highly over rated. I'm curious to see how they play out.

An aftermarket product will void the warranty and I am assuming you are waiting till the warranty is done?

Seems like an ultra picky set up, with a lot of band-aids needed. Where's the root of the condensation problem, I'd try to fix that first without choking off anymore flow.

I had a lot of problems with gm's stupidly designed 6.5 tb dsl and got a lot of help off several different diesel forums. Have you looked into any forums to get a wide range of opinions on a possible cure for the condensation problem? A lot of dealer mechanics and shop guys can't hold a candle to the none educated farmers and grease monkeys who find creative ways to fix certain issues outside of books, manuals or the class room setting.

Good luck with it and let us know if you get it tweaked 100%.

[9manfan]

I have fixed a few Fords (bodywork) with the eco boost in them and I always ask the customer how they like the eco boost so far and I would say it's about 50-50, most have had some sort of problem, but some are happy with them as well, guess that's with any vehicle................

[lumbertick]

I know very little about turbo's...but adding water to fuel will actually increase octane..and I would assume the other crankcase gasses would do the same? So if you are factoring lower octane into your tuning may mean you are going the wrong direction? I assume that the engine has compression designed to handle the low octane pump fuel?? I also know nothing about tuning the computer operated engine management...I'm very old school!!

lt

[Pvogtlin]

Have you tried scratching off that blue oval on the front? That will usually fix anything.

[maplelakeduckslayer]

Interesting?

I've heard both good and bad about eco boost. My oldest kid is a major gear head, worked in a shop where the mechanics where split on ford's eco boost system. He has re built and worked on a lot of rotary turbos. He thinks the ford's are highly over rated. I'm curious to see how they play out.

An aftermarket product will void the warranty and I am assuming you are waiting till the warranty is done?

Seems like an ultra picky set up, with a lot of band-aids needed. Where's the root of the condensation problem, I'd try to fix that first without choking off anymore flow.

I had a lot of problems with gm's stupidly designed 6.5 tb dsl and got a lot of help off several different diesel forums. Have you looked into any forums to get a wide range of opinions on a possible cure for the condensation problem? A lot of dealer mechanics and shop guys can't hold a candle to the none educated farmers and grease monkeys who find creative ways to fix certain issues outside of books, manuals or the class room setting.

Good luck with it and let us know if you get it tweaked 100%.

Yep, warranty was gone at 60k...one thing I don't like about Ford is their shorter warranty.

Forums is where I read about drilling a small hole to drain the oil/condensation. The condensation issue is most likely the turbo sizing...Ford wanted them small to limit turbo lag. However that means they are spinning a lot of the time...hills, headwind, high speeds, towing...almost constantly in boost. Pair that with an efficient IC and condensation can form rapidly. Since turbos are spendy and I do want to keep that no lag drivability, working around the issue is what I'm trying to do. Aftermarket tunes help the issue cause they work the turbos more frequently, pushing that moisture out of the IC.

It appears a lot of my loss of power issue was an inlet pipe boost leak. Just looking at it you wouldn't think it would be leaking...but after fixing that Thursday my truck is back to normal. Its very unfortunate it took me a year to locate the boost leak...and was most likely caused by the dealership not installing the revised IC correctly. The truck has felt like it had 1/3 less power than when it was new...until I fixed that boost leak. Now it feels like the way it was off the lot. Its amazing what one little leak can do.

Still going to get an aftermarket IC seeing the blocking Ford put into theirs internally...thats not good when tow a lot like I do.

[maplelakeduckslayer]

The power is tons better after finding the boost leak and I also put in new Autolite plugs again. Mileage has been fantastic with several 150+ mile trips at 22+ mpg with whole tanks of combined highway/city at 19-20 mpg.

However...I still have an erratic power issue. Boost still fluctuates...sometimes it feels really strong other times sluggish. And I've begun doing research on the primary timing chain. It appears that the 2011 model year has had some issues with stretched/broken chains(and Ford changed the part number of the chain, often an indicator the part was changed). And Monday morning when I started it up I got a rattle for 2-3 seconds that I have never heard before...sounded like the timing chain. Some people have had timing chain issues appear between 80-120k miles...and I'm at 84k.

I'm not 100% comfortable tearing into this engine(neither is my small town mechanic haha), and it does require some special tools. I will be talking to my dealer about investigating a stretched timing chain, which will not be a cheap job. If Ford was not releasing an all new F150 this Fall I would look at trading it in, but I do not want another first year vehicle. Probably not looking at a new one until 2017 at the earliest.

My tuner has sent me a dozen revisions and we just cannot get the tune to run right...and we both agree there is a hardware issue somewhere causing this. Hearing the timing chain rattle the other morning...we are thinking timing is off causing all this havoc.

So...possible timing chain, guides, tensioner replacement is my next step.

[dwendt]

Yikes that gets spendy fast! As much as I hate fords I hate hearing people having trouble with their vehicles more, I recently had trouble with my truck, luckily I was able to diagnose and fix it myself. But if damn near left is stranded in Wisconsin after visiting family, luckily I had brought my scan tool with me to clear codes and figure out what was making it go into "limp" mode so I drove it home under 65 the whole way so it wouldn't go into limp, 175 bucks later for two new injector connections and she has been running like a top since. Hopefully it ends up being something simpler and less expensive as the timing chain.

[maplelakeduckslayer]

If it makes it run 100% at this point I just don't care anymore. I've been running tunes for a year with a dozen revisions by the custom tuner and it still doesn't act right...usually he sends people one tune and it runs fantastic. That tells me its hardware related and hearing the chain the other morning certainly points in that direction...which kind of makes sense given my symptoms. Data logs in my truck show erratic adding and removing timing. Its not bad gas. Bad knock sensor possibly...but really looking at the chain since it made sounds its not supposed to. And truck hasn't thrown a code yet...typically a bad knock sensor will throw it but it may take a bit for the truck to throw a code for the timing chain until it gets worse.