Declining Hunter Numbers?

[Mallard_maniac]

Well it may have not have any impact on hunter recruitment I firmly believes it has an impact on hunter retention. I know of 7-10 guys that used to hunt Minnesota a lot and in the last ten years now only go to the Dakotas, Canada, and other southern states. They do not hunt Minnesota at all and never intend to again. They are still hunting 7-20 days a year just none in Minnesota. I used to hunt Minnesota 30 days a year but now a few at most. When time is very limited and you only have say a week to hunt you are going go to SD or Canada where you can shoot a limit every day. At least that is what I am going to do. I am not going to drive three hours to western MN not knowing if I will see any ducks or not. I could when I was younger and had the time marriage and kids changes that. However, Bullet is going to shoot a limit no matter where he goes. He could go to Carlos Avery and be done in twenty minutes. Some people just have the magic tough.

I get it... everyone's busy and only getting busier. Traveling to Canada or the Dakota's or Arkansas or Texas has been going on since I can remember and likely a long time before that. I can remember in the 70's some of my dad's friends hunting Canada and Canada only. Die hard waterfowlers in their youth but like you, life happened...married, kids, only a limited amount of time, so they maximized opportunity and went to the place which would allow them the highest chance for success. This is nothing new. Honestly so what.... so what if you travel to ND or Canada? You're a retained participant. So what if you're buddies do? same answer... However the overall trend is that nationally our numbers are dwindling, even in some pretty great areas.

I do know that we've been using the wetland and habitat loss boogie man umbrella for virtually every problem in waterfowling. The migration doesn't happen: blame wetland management. It happens too fast: blame wetland management. Our genre is losing hunter numbers by the thousands: blame wetland management. You trip and sprain an ankle at your favorite WMA: you guessed it.... It's an easy one to use because it places blame on everyone but us... When we're the issue on this one. I've got a fair amount of buddies that hunt waterfowl. But far less numbers of their kids do. Just real quick thinking/math: the approximate ratio just in my tiny world is for every 5 adults (with families) I know that waterfowl hunt only 1 child of those person(s) is waterfowl hunting and that's likely being generous.

If we turn a blind eye at recruitment we're a sinking ship and that's exactly what's happening. The old 'fowlers are dieing off and very few new one's are there to take their place.

[Bailey]

Then you have places like Swan Lake that used to be great for late season mallards, etc and now are not very good at all. Just a ton of different factors.

Yup.

As my dad said about 30 years ago when the DNR got control of Swan - that it'll go down the crapper, and it did.
They are keeping the water levels down from the levels in the 50-70s. Meaning many years there was zero water in the refuge in the horseshoe shaped Anderson Island. Ducks imprint and get used to stopping at certain places. - that is gone now. I remember as recently as 20 yrs ago watching tens of thousands of Mallards coming back into the refuge late AM in the end of Oct. That stopped when they put in the new dam and they lowered it 1.5' than the lake used to be - making the refuge having no water. Thus hunting went down the crapper.

But this year you can go to places with a regular motor that you have not been able to go for many years with the very high water levels.

BTW, the carp are back. They caught a 14" carp in a test net 2 weeks ago. So it'll just be a matter of time before they are all over the place again and they will drain it. I'd give it 3 yrs, maybe 5 at most before it is a mud flat.

As for "Other factors" - 1 is DNR mismanagement of our wetlands.

I hunted Swan the first time around 1998 after college and recall nailing limits of mallards a few days in a row. In fact the first day we were on a public hunting slough right off of swan. Like you said tens of thousands heading back to the refuge all for hours. . Hunted it a handful of time in the early 2000's and it was crap. i have not gone back since though I hear it is still overrun with hunters though.

[Bailey]

I don't think hunting will end in my life time, but 20 + yrs from now? Hmmm.
I bet there will be serious challenges in the next 20yrs, and be banned in some states, and 20+ yrs from now when us baby boomers are mostly dead, all bets are off.

Also who will fund the USFWS and DNR and the conservation orgs like MWA, Du and Delta with the dropping participation?

I know for me in my 20-40s I got up at 2;30 to go hunting, but in my 50s I found that I just do not function well at all with 3 hrs sleep, with a mentality of screw that... which has resulted in me hunting only 1/3 of what I used to do. But what really played into this less hunting is the bad encounters I had while hunting from 12 to 23 yrs ago in MN, to SD to ND to MB with dick head hunters and G/Os. They ruined my zeal to go hunting, took the fun right out of it for the most part.

As for hunter participation - look at the last 5 yrs, here - we have not even done a group hunt here, be it for Snows, Honkers or ducks. Its a sign for sure.

A good thread topic for sure.

I would say in 20 years in Minnesota you will have half the number of ducks hunters you do right now. Probably around 40k at most. There are a lot of hunters in their 60-s to 80s that still buy a license or maybe hunt a few times a years. They will all be gone by then and there is not much to replace each one of them who quits. I have three buddies I used to hunt with who rarely go anymore and none of their kids hunt. My dad’s buddy who was a hardcore hunter his whole life and has access to all kinds of land has 10 grandkids. Only one of them duck hunts and the rest have zero interest in it. You get my point.

[Bailey]

Then you have places like Swan Lake that used to be great for late season mallards, etc and now are not very good at all. Just a ton of different factors.

Yup.

As my dad said about 30 years ago when the DNR got control of Swan - that it'll go down the crapper, and it did.
They are keeping the water levels down from the levels in the 50-70s. Meaning many years there was zero water in the refuge in the horseshoe shaped Anderson Island. Ducks imprint and get used to stopping at certain places. - that is gone now. I remember as recently as 20 yrs ago watching tens of thousands of Mallards coming back into the refuge late AM in the end of Oct. That stopped when they put in the new dam and they lowered it 1.5' than the lake used to be - making the refuge having no water. Thus hunting went down the crapper.

But this year you can go to places with a regular motor that you have not been able to go for many years with the very high water levels.

BTW, the carp are back. They caught a 14" carp in a test net 2 weeks ago. So it'll just be a matter of time before they are all over the place again and they will drain it. I'd give it 3 yrs, maybe 5 at most before it is a mud flat.

As for "Other factors" - 1 is DNR mismanagement of our wetlands.

Everything the DNR touches seems to turn to s…… ( mille lacs). I mean honestly does the DNR simply not want there to be good hunting on Swan? I mean if the refuge has no water why not create a new refuge on the lake where there is always water? I hear it still has tons of water but nobody talks about good hunting on the like like they did 20 years ago. You have one of the biggest freshwater marshes left in the United States and with major history and the hunting is terrible. Unreal.

[h2ofwlr]

What they did was lowered the lake levels for a prolonged time (years) and it was dry in the refuge. Basically the ducks that used to stop, just plain stopped coming, they shifted their migration elsewhere.

So yes IMHO, another glaring case of mismanagement on their part.

[Bailey]

What they did was lowered the lake levels for a prolonged time (years) and it was dry in the refuge. Basically the ducks that used to stop, just plain stopped coming, they shifted their migration elsewhere.

So yes IMHO, another glaring case of mismanagement on their part.

Well if they banned mud motors and had motor restrictions you probably would not even need a refuge to keep birds around. But of course you and I know there is a 0.00% of that every happening. Instead the army of hunters on Swan will continue to have poor hunting. But hey at least they can cruise around all over the place!

And to say if could not be done is crazy. Delta Marsh if much bigger and does not allow any motors at all. It is just people are so used to having them on Swan they will never give them up. Ever.

[h2ofwlr]

Well if they banned mud motors and had motor restrictions you probably would not even need a refuge to keep birds around. But of course you and I know there is a 0.00% of that every happening. Instead the army of hunters on Swan will continue to have poor hunting. But hey at least they can cruise around all over the place!

And to say if could not be done is crazy. Delta Marsh if much bigger and does not allow any motors at all. It is just people are so used to having them on Swan they will never give them up. Ever.

About 10 yrs ago I had suggested a 6HP max motor, and none during the spring until the day before Opener - the farmers wanted to lynch me - I am serious!

[Bailey]

Well if they banned mud motors and had motor restrictions you probably would not even need a refuge to keep birds around. But of course you and I know there is a 0.00% of that every happening. Instead the army of hunters on Swan will continue to have poor hunting. But hey at least they can cruise around all over the place!

And to say if could not be done is crazy. Delta Marsh if much bigger and does not allow any motors at all. It is just people are so used to having them on Swan they will never give them up. Ever.

About 10 yrs ago I had suggested a 6HP max motor, and none during the spring until the day before Opener - the farmers wanted to lynch me - I am serious!

Why in the heck would the farmers care?

[h2ofwlr]

That's the exact question I asked!

They don't want the Gubberment to tell them what to do is what I was told!

But they SURE do like the Gubberment subsidy checks each year! F-ing hypocrits!

I lost my lease because of it, he doubled the yearly price, and it just plain was not worth it anymore. Family was there for over 55 yrs in that 8x16 hunting shack.

[Stute Slap]

That's the exact question I asked!

They don't want the Gubberment to tell them what to do is what I was told!

But they SURE do like the Gubberment subsidy checks each year! F-ing hypocrits!

I lost my lease because of it, he doubled the yearly price, and it just plain was not worth it anymore. Family was there for over 55 yrs in that 8x16 hunting shack.

Do you know if the lease is still available?