1 1/4 vs 1 1/8?

[Nershi]

Thanks for the info guys.

I have also heard that fps is only measured at the muzzle and the fps out 30 yards will be very different even between shells that have the same advertised fps at the muzzle. Just hear-say so I have no idea if there is any truth to that.

The velocity really falls off on shotshells, especially steel shot. Here is the downrange velocities for various sizes of steel shot at different muzzle velocities.

Thanks for the chart. I am aware the velocity falls off. What I was saying is the down range velocity can be different between shells that have the same muzzle velocity. So a good shell with 1400 fps muzzle velocity may have more velocity 30 yards out than a cheap shell with 1400 fps muzzle velocity.

[lanyard]

FF has Kent Fasteel on the shelf in 1,2,3,4 I believe, all 1 1/8 in 3", 1560 fps.

To test the theories re: speed vs. pellet count, they also had 2 3/4" 1 1/16, 1550 fps. difference in pellets between the two is 10 pellets (average 20 pellets per 1/8 oz).

Dad passed away this year, thinking I might shoot his O/U for opener, mostly teal, woodies, maybe a red/ringer, and a mallard. Will give them a shot and try to figure out if there is any difference.

3" = $13.99
2 3/4" = $12.99

Will be interested to see if there is any difference in felt recoil on the O/U.

[Geaux4me]

Think the best load for my money was the federal red box, ultra heavy high velocity stuff. Dont produce it anymorebut there are still a few places to find it.

1 1/4 movin at 1450 meant dead ducks or geese if i did my part.

[h2ofwlr]

Another thing that I do not think has been covered is patterning of the various loads.

Years back a friend of mine was reloading 1650fps in 1 oz and made all sorts of claims. He gave me 6 shells and I patterned them with 2 chokes. It was simply the most awfull patterning I have ever seen. At 40 yds in 30" circle holes the size of a soccer ball it was less than 20% hit rate and the same choke in a factory 1475 was 80% Basically the extra speed blew the pattern all to heck.

A couple of years latter I was then patterning factory 1600fps VS 1475. Again the higher speed had a poor pattern compared to the 1475.

Now that being said I do remember the 1325 and 1350fps loads of 15+ years ago, and they crippled far more ducks that the 1475 did. It was real frustrating shooting those slower shells of 15-25 years ago. The "speed kills" came out of that era when hunters found that a 1450+ worked a LOT better (killed VS cripple ratio). For me it was night and day difference and when steel shot shells finally got close to lead for effectiveness in shorter ranges (under 40yds). So to use "speed kills" with the 1600 VS a 1475 is to me unproven. The camparison is not linear. Yes in my opinion a 1450-1500 shell of the same payload kill better that a the slower 1300-1350 ones do. But is the 1600 better than than the 1475? I really question that.

So in summation here is my take on it. If too slow, there is not enough foot/lbs of energy hitting the bird. (Foot/lbs is in a single and/or multiple pellets is what kills the bird). And going too fast blows the pattern. So the key is in between, having speed and yet a good pattern. I found the 1450-1500 to be that balance. So I have used 1 1/8 loads for years. Now the disclaimer ~ I have not shot the newer shells for a good 6-7 years, so I have no idea if the patterns have gotten better over time with the factory load over 1500fps. Also back then there were not 1450+ loads available in 3" in 1.25 oz. But if today you can find a 1.25 oz load in the 1450fps range AND it patterns well for you, obviously it would be better than a 1 1/8 oz as it has more pellets for a better chance of a clean kill because there is more foot lbs of energy (EG potentially an axtra pellet hitting the bird).

This has been a good topic gentlemen, I wish you all good hunting to all this fall with what ever you use.

[lanyard]

Wad technology has come a long way and is a primary component in many of the improvements in faster steel.

Before Fasteel I shot the blues and reds from Federal. They seemed to kill ducks the same way, but the powder in the blues always seemed to leave a mess..... much like I see in Black Cloud.

Over the years, these appear to have been the primary conversations regarding steel:
1) how does a certain load pattern from your gun
2) shot size consistency~ particularly in cheaper shells
3) wad technology~ whether in shell or use of aftermarket "stripper" chokes
4) powder technology~ hotter, cleaner burning loads
5) shot size selection~ "drop down two from lead" was the rule of thumb, likely still relevant as that should address the mass difference.... momentum = speed x mass

I shoot 3" Fasteel #3s at everything, but will with to 1's or BB late season and on Canadian Geese only trips (need to be armed if they don't provide their passports). I will try the 2 3/4" on opener to see if there is a difference in PERCEIVED kill-ability.

Dammit~ Nershi NEEDS the information! Let us know how it goes on Saturday Nersh, and what you end up running through your tube.

[h2ofwlr]

I think most know that at under 35 yds a 2.75" in 1 oz will kill just as effectively ballistically as a 3" 1 1/8 will. It is when you got to the outer limits of 35yds+ that the extra pellets come into play. It is when over 45 yds that the smaller shot velocity and corresponding ft/lbs of energy really drops dramatically. And of course the pattern comes into play.

But the shooters ability is a huge part in all this. Ballistically said load and choke and pattern may do a VG job, but if you are not a good shot, it's a moot point. And the only way to get better is to practice. Ideally at a skeet range and duck tower using steel shot that you use hunting.[VS lead small (7.5 ot 8) shot]. I wish the kids would be taken out to the skeet/tower range a few times before YWD, as there would be a lot more kills per shot shell ratio. Same for poor shooters. Also a good shooting coach can make a big difference, especially on young and or inexperiences hunters so they learn solid fundamentals.

Also confidence comes into play. if you are comfortable with the gun/choke/load and your ability, that indeed strengthens ones confidence while shooting. There is a big difference in thinking you can make the shot and knowing you can make the shot.


BTW, I heard Lanyard will be hunting with US customs agent this weekend


So Nershi, what did you end up getting? Just curious is all.

[emptymag]

I have so much to say on this so Ill try to summarize...

Most people cant hit shat beyond 40 yards
Out to 40 yards I personally know that everything above #5 steel will produce a clean kill
Most hunters over choke their guns
Almost every shell Ive patterned over 1500 fps has a worse pattern than a shell 1500 fps or under
Shooting #6 steel = broken teeth(if you eat your birds) even at close range
Shells with fancy wads do what they are meant too, shoot tight=miss at close range or a pic of a wad stuck in a goose breast
3.5 shells are a waste of $ and punish your shoulder

After a couple of years of patterning 50+ different loads from several chokes and several guns hears what I shoot
Ducks
1 1/4oz or 1 3/8oz
#4 early and #2
Fed blue box, Fed red box, Kent, Estate, Remington Sportsman Steel

Same as above for geese but #2 and BB

I generally shoot a IC choke or a Light MOD

After maket chokes/extended choke almost always produce a better pattern. I shoot Trulock precision hunter chokes

[tyler]

I have so much to say on this so Ill try to summarize...

Most people cant hit shat beyond 40 yards
Out to 40 yards I personally know that everything above #5 steel will produce a clean kill
Most hunters over choke their guns
Almost every shell Ive patterned over 1500 fps has a worse pattern than a shell 1500 fps or under
Shooting #6 steel = broken teeth(if you eat your birds) even at close range
Shells with fancy wads do what they are meant too, shoot tight=miss at close range or a pic of a wad stuck in a goose breast
3.5 shells are a waste of $ and punish your shoulder

After a couple of years of patterning 50+ different loads from several chokes and several guns hears what I shoot
Ducks
1 1/4oz or 1 3/8oz
#4 early and #2
Fed blue box, Fed red box, Kent, Estate, Remington Sportsman Steel

Same as above for geese but #2 and BB

I generally shoot a IC choke or a Light MOD

After maket chokes/extended choke almost always produce a better pattern. I shoot Trulock precision hunter chokes

]

spot on