Best Place/Avenue to Find a Decent Black Lab Puppy

[maplelakeduckslayer]

I'm not into field trials or pheasant hunting, so bloodline this and that and extensive training don't matter to me. My last black lab I got for free and trained him to listen, be quiet, sit still, and retrieve ducks and that's all that really matters to me. He did perfectly fine given my expectations. I put him down 8 years ago and may be getting ready to get another one. In all honesty, good manners and being a good family dog are probably more important than the hunting aspect. My last black lab was great at all of that, maybe he spoiled me or I did a good job at training, but he never left the yard, never barked, hunted, and he'd let any little kid do anything to him without a reaction...Was mellow not super hyper. I really don't want a dog that is constantly running through the house tearing shit apart waiting for the split second you crack the door to bolt out and tear through the neighborhood. Nothing more annoying to me.

So if I just go on CL and get an "AKC" registered black lab puppy do I have equal chances as going anywhere else? I know for the hardcore dog guys this post is probably infuriating but I just don't care much about all the fancy stuff

[Quack]

You have a poor chance of getting the puppy you want by shopping on Craigslist because that kind of breeder doesn't know squat about breeding and probably doesn't even know the truth about the quality of the dogs they paired.

I don't do field trials either.

Every pup is a gamble but you have a much better chance of getting the dog you want by shopping with established breeders.

There's a British kennel down by Le Suer that breeds very nice dogs.

Option 2: search the humane society kennels for a youngish mellow black lab. You might be surprised at how successful this can be.

[lanyard]

For the most part, I'm on Quack's side. Here's my thoughts on buying the "farm dog":

1) if you can't go the house/kennel the dog lives in or was raised in, do not purchase a dog from this person. These are the "dark" breeders. They want to meet at Rest Areas and shit and do exchanges like a meth deal.

2) How much expectation do you have to a dog that conforms to breed standard? This will end up being your more "real" farm dog. they have a lab, it got pregnant, the puppies look like labs...... down the line they might get a white chest patch, a longer/curlier coat, be more wiry, whatever. For some reason it seems, the accident is easier on genetics than ass hats trying to make money and meeting you in Rest Areas. Just my observation from other people I know and the dogs they had for $300 or less.

3) Network with friends and family. I almost got a really nice chocolate through a contact at Gen Mills. The couple was relocating and would be living in urban townhouses after living on a large suburban lot, so they were looking at re-homing the dog.

4) Check with rehoming services type organizations. I know there is one for Goldens. As Quack mentioned, the local Humane Society might be a good place to start also. There are several groups on Facebook that have very active/vigilant members for dog/puppy rescue/rehoming/etc. I think they are a bit nuts, but they do a really good job of identifying stolen dogs and dark breeders and keeping them off the pages.

5) If you get pictures of a pup/dog and you can't see it's surroundings, be suspicious.. A close-up of puppies face is great, but you're going to want to see pics of it's whelping area, know if it was whelped in home, etc. This has a lot to do with socialization.

6) If you can't meet the mom of said pup I'd consider not taking the trip/spending the money. Obviously, if it's an older dog, no worries.

7) You might find some deals if Mom & Dad Jagoff bought kids a dog for Christmas..... now would be about the time they are realizing that was not the best move.

All in, I think there is plenty of good possibilities for getting a dog cheap enough that will meet your needs. And living out of the metro a bit you might be surprised how close you find one if you start inquiring with folks. Check at the bait shop, grab numbers off pieces of paper hanging on cork boards, etc. Craigslist for dogs scares me:

Really Bad Craigslist: https://stcloud.craigslist.org/grd/5932184200.html

Bad Craigslist: https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/ ... 35313.html

Better Craigslist: https://stcloud.craigslist.org/spo/5971608034.html

Good Craigslist: couldn't find one

[maplelakeduckslayer]

Thanks guys, just tossing it around. I saw those ads on craigslist last night and the only one I would have considered was the one you have labeled as better. I saw those other ones and definitely wouldn't be buying from people like that.

I'll do more checking I'm not going to rush into a purchase, but not going to search around high and low for the perfect dog for the low cost of a k either

[Quack]

Getting a quality "rehome" by networking is the bees knees, in my opinion. Pups are great if you have the time to deal with them but even the best pup is a handful.

On the flip side, 99.9% of people involved in "rescue" groups are batshyt crazy animal lovers and couldn't give an objective analysis of a dog if their life depended on it.

Be equally careful about taking a dog that's 6 months to 2 years from a stranger. Vast majority of these dogs either never had what it takes or the owners weren't up to the challenge and ruined the dog by neglect, lack of discipline, allowed it to get aggressive, made it gunshy or water shy, you name it. Dog is a basket case and they can't give it away fast enough. Happens all the time.

On the other hand, if you're an animal lover and need a project with no guarantees, these are perfect!

[lanyard]

You might also find a hunter over 60 that came into some health issues, us down sizing, or.... died.

The kids already have dogs or don't want one. If you've got some contacts through your dad, that group is likely connected to those folks.

[h2ofwlr]

My last black lab was great at all of that, maybe he spoiled me or I did a good job at training, but he never left the yard, never barked, hunted, and he'd let any little kid do anything to him without a reaction...Was mellow not super hyper. I really don't want a dog that is constantly running through the house tearing shit apart waiting for the split second you crack the door to bolt out and tear through the neighborhood. Nothing more annoying to me.

So if I just go on CL and get an "AKC" registered black lab puppy do I have equal chances as going anywhere else?

Your 2nd dog will never be like you 1st dog, so lower your expectations and you'll be happier. (kind of like the very 1st kiss vs the 1st kiss from the 2nd gal in your life - very good but not quite the thrill like the very 1st ).

What it sounds like is that what you need is a Beta temperament dog if going for a mellow dog. [Vs Alpha (I'm the boss) or an Omega temperament (in the middle)]. With a very strong Alpha being a 10, a 5-6 being an Omega and a very meek Beta a 1, it sounds like a 3 to 4 on that scale is what would suit you well. And this has a lot to do with the pecking order within the pups hierarchy. IMHO based on what I've experienced and read and listening to others: at 7 weeks is the best time to separate the pups. At 6 weeks the Beta's can be a bit anxious, and at 8 weeks the pecking order can be too well defined.

I suggest reading up on some buying a dog, like the squirm test. Basically you hold the 6 week old puppy with you hands cradling it's mid section lifting it off the floor a few inches with you standing above it. The quicker they squirm, the more dominant they are. That's an old stand by test from at least 50 years ago as the guy taught me that had learned it many years prior from another. I am sure some experts can tell you how many seconds until it squirms what temperament it'll be. But if you have say 6 pups, I'd being leery of the 2 fastest to squirm. And one that is a runt and picked by the other pups on I'd pass on as perhaps too Beta. Also ask the breeder, so which ones were the 1st to climb the stairs/steps? or break out of an enclosed area? (these are Alphas). Questions like that can be useful in determining their temperament.

A rescue dog may be in order IF you can find out what is all going on with it. My 2nd dog was a rescue, he came out of a divorce situation and was 3 YO and had premier (Frisbee) blood lines, He was an $800 pup, 35 years ago. He was a great mannered dog and I got him for free because they checked on me and they knew I'd treat him right and give him a good home (which is what they were after).
But as mentioned - if it was not at all trained, neglected, or worse (abused), you can have your hands full. Not saying they are not a good dog, but rather they will need extra time to undo bad behaviors, etc. Yes you CAN teach an old dog a new trick, it just takes longer.
For example - when my sister had a pup at 3-4 months, there was a burglary. What we gathered is it was struck by a man when it was in it's box. It trusted only 3 men after that. Of which I was 1, my Dad the other and a family friend the 3rd. It'd growl and/or skitter away from any other male humans -- and it did not do that prior to the burglary. It never overcame that fear of men. Thus why if a dog comes out of an abusive situation, its resulting behavior can last forever.

As for local shelters, don't tell them you are a hunter. I am serious, as I have seen people post that they were rejected because they hunted. (all was going great until until it was mentioned they can't wait to see what he can do to retrieve a bird. - it went south very quickly )

Another source is the local Vets, as every so often they know of dogs that are available too, be it pups or a re homing situation (that is how I got my 2nd dog).

Another option is that a person seeing that you are looking may contact you. That is what happened 11 years ago, I wrote about loosing my dog to Lyme's disease. A few days later I was contacted by a member of the hunting site I was a member of too. So you never know how it may all come about.

The best method may indeed be through a referral.

I sincerely wish you all the best on your search.

[lanyard]

Your 2nd dog will never be like you 1st dog, so lower your expectations and you'll be happier. (kind of like the very 1st kiss vs the 1st kiss from the 2nd gal in your life - very good but not quite the thrill like the very 1st ).

I apparently did it wrong. A lot of things got better after the first.

First beer sucked. I remember this.

First kiss sucked. Pretty sure I remember this, but have no reason to.

First attempts at sex sucked, and that sucked.

I get the butterflies part you're referring to Al, but if you think #2 kiss isn't as good as #1 kiss you need to keep kissing.

Dogs: you can't expect to replace a dog. you get a different dog every time. If you're lucky, each one has something they bring a new strength to and your growth as a person/dog owner is deeper because of it. Guarantee there are a lot of people with better 2nd and 3rd dogs for no other reason than they figured out WTF they were doing with training and learning how to let the dog do their job.

If you had a dog as a kid, when you were younger than 14, that's a different bond. That's the sort of thing Old Yeller and Where the Red Fern Grow are based on. The day you start figuring out how much you want to pay and start choosing things like color/temperament/size of parents/price..... you're not in puppy love land anymore.

Sure doesn't mean we don't have our favorites, though

[Nershi]

I just noticed this thread. I am in the market too. I am looking for a British/English lab because their temperament seems to be more chill like you describe in your first post. That is what my dad bought when I was growing up and our dogs have been awesome. You could probably argue that it was the owners more than the breed but nevertheless that is the british/English reputation.

The biggest part I am struggling with is the commitment. I want a lab really bad and now that I own a house I can finally get one. On the other side of the coin is the ball and chain a dog brings (kind of like a woman with less bullshit to deal with). I fish a ton. This could pose a challenge in the hot summer months. Winter and spring it would be fine for the dog to come along but when I spend 8-14 hours muskie fishing on the boat during the day on the weekends in the summer that is not fair to the dog to bring it with and it is not fair to leave it home all the time either. I also travel several times a year around the country to see music with friends which is a big challenge finding someone to watch the dog for long periods of time. I've never been good at long term commitments and this whole dog thing is really making me realize that.

I also realize the investment I would need to make and things add up fast, not even considering the cost of purchase. A nice underground fence so my dog can be outside while I am at work, a nice outdoor dog house that is well insulated, new outdoor kennel, vet bills, training tools, dog sitting when not home, etc, etc. It really adds up.

A few things I have found in my research that might be worth sharing.

1. I've talked to a lot of guys who train and hunt with dogs a lot more than I do. They also have researched this stuff more than me. From what they say AKC doesn't mean shit. I am not going to try to regurgitate why they feel that way but if anyone disagrees with that statement I would be interested to know why.

2. Dogs are a lot more expensive than what they used to be. Be prepared for $1,200-2,500 from a 'reputable breeders'. I have found a few from $600-1,000 but my impression from them has been luke warm. Not too long ago $500 would get you a good dog from a reputable breeder.

3. You need to start looking way in advance. I want to get one some time in April or May and I am finding I am too late with a lot of breeders I have talked to. Deposits are already in ahead of me.

Let us know what you end up doing. If I man up and pull the trigger on one I'll let you know.

[maplelakeduckslayer]

Yeah my brother has an English and it's very calm, almost too calm its way overweight haha.

I hear you on the other stuff, I work a ton of hours but the gf starts work at 5am so at least she's home at 1 to spend time with it, I never know when I'll be home. The biggest thing to me is spending the money, I'm a cheap ass and until I have enough cash built up to what I consider sufficient, I don't like spending it on discretionary items.

Like you I was aiming for mid to late spring so I don't have to potty train in winter.

But the more I think about it I don't want the expense this year, hoping to do a bunch of landscaping and re-side the house this summer.