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Re: Walleye season on Mille Lacs faces early shutdown

Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:23 am

I just pray they open a top heavy slot to reduce the amount of big fish in the lake to help balance it out. I'd love to see a 3 fish limit with them all being over 22 inches, with everything under 22 inch being released. That would be legit.
get-n-birdy wrote:Remember, just because it's not legal doesn't mean you can't do it, there's just a fee if you get caught.

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Re: Walleye season on Mille Lacs faces early shutdown

Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:24 am

h2ofwlr wrote:So what has changed over the years compared to say 40 years ago when there were always lots of fish as there was always plenty of walleyes. Fishing pressure is a big part of it, but the real culprit IMHO is catch and release is the biggest change. Years ago a guy went out and caught say 3 fish and kept them and went home. Now the average Joe catches 12 and keeps none, but 5 end up dieing.


This actually makes sense.
get-n-birdy wrote:Remember, just because it's not legal doesn't mean you can't do it, there's just a fee if you get caught.

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Re: Walleye season on Mille Lacs faces early shutdown

Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:27 pm

The higher the water temp the more stress a fish has getting caught and the more chemicals it releases in it's body which leads to a much higher mortality rate. That's why most Muskie guys quit fishing when the surface temp reaches 80.

The deeper water you hook a fish in the higher mortality rate.

When the walleyes were starving 4-5 years ago due to a crash in the perch population you'd see hundreds of floaters because guys were fishing in 25-35 fow and the temps were upper 70's to low 80's.

All that being said, if the stats in deets post are accurate the dnr is way off in their estimates. No way that many are dying.

Id love to see how they come up with some of their numbers.

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Re: Walleye season on Mille Lacs faces early shutdown

Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:34 pm

Catch and release is a good thing. Mille lacs problem is not caused by hook mortality from catch and release.

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Re: Walleye season on Mille Lacs faces early shutdown

Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:26 am

Lake Mille Lacs walleye: Why there are no easy answers
By Dave Orrick
dorrick@pioneerpress.com
Posted: 07/24/2015 06:55:39 PM CDT | Updated: a day ago


Also see: What's best for Mille Lacs? Wildlife biologist weighs in.

Lake Mille Lacs: There's gotta be a better way.

But what?

The problem with Mille Lacs is clear: There aren't enough walleye to go around. Hasn't been for some time, but it's gotten worse each year for several years now.

The result: The Department of Natural Resources will likely close walleye fishing this summer, perhaps as soon as Aug. 3. Then the lake, which has been relatively bereft of fishing pressure for at least two years, will be more empty. And then the assemblage of resorts, guides and businesses around Garrison and Isle -- a wonderful assemblage with a rich history -- will be further stressed.

Fishing for walleye -- our state fish -- shut down on Mille Lacs -- our most popular fishing lake.

This stinks.

We're frustrated, angry. So we vent. The more constructive among us try to come up with solutions. Count antsy lawmakers among this group seeking a remedy within their powers. And the DNR. To those who believe the agency to be rife with incompetents or liars, I fail to see how they've got anything to gain by the current situation.

Every time I write about Mille Lacs, my phone line and inbox light up. Some rant, some have ideas. Many of the ideas sound good, but each has flaws. Here are a few:

STOP THE NETS

Members of eight bands of Chippewa Indians have the right, under an 1837 treaty that has survived a challenge to the U. S. Supreme Court, to set their own rules for taking walleye. So for years, they've set gill nets in the shallows shortly after ice-out, when spawning walleyes swim there.

Netting the spawners of a struggling population can't possibly be helpful. If there were no nets come spring, I wouldn't complain.

But I wouldn't rejoice. Because it won't solve much.

Because the nets aren't the problem. Years of data show this: Spawning remains great on Mille Lacs. It's producing more new walleyes, acre for acre, nearly every year, than anywhere else in the state, including Red Lake. These fish hatch healthy. They just don't survive to adulthood. Nets don't catch yearlings.

Consider also that a key walleye demographic, spawning-age males, are killed far more frequently -- year after year -- by the hook-and-line than the gillnet. This year, the bulk of walleye killed by Indians were via spear not net. Of course, spearing during the spawn can't possibly be helpful either.

Regardless, Minnesota would have a hard time persuading a court to halt the spring tribal take, which for years has been less than a third of the state's.

Perhaps Gov. Mark Dayton can persuade the bands directly. But he would need to give something in return.

What else you got?

LET THE LAKE REST

Ban the gill nets -- and the live wells. Catch-and-release only for walleye until the lake recovers. Might only have to be a year or two.

It's fair: equal pain for Indians and non.

This might be what happens. There might be no other choice.

Speaking strictly from a biological perspective, the best course would be to ban all fishing, period. But that'll never happen.

I'd be OK with catch-and-release only on walleyes. I love to eat fish, but I choose my take carefully. I'm pretty sure I've never kept a Mille Lacs walleye. It's still a great lake to fish -- and will continue to be.

But there's the economic cost, because the evidence seems clear: Far fewer people go to Mille Lacs if they don't think they keep walleyes.

If we're so worried about the effects of closing walleye fishing for half a summer, shouldn't we be even more worried about closing it for the winter, and the summer after that, and the winter after that, and the summer after that?

And what about when the water temps climb into the mid-70s, and the walleyes are 30 feet down, and we haul them to the surface so fast they get the bends, and we toss them back and they float belly up, dead? How exactly will that help anything?

Catch-and-release might be the best course, but it won't be pretty.

STOCK WALLEYES

If we go this route -- and this route will only be taken if legislators demand it -- get out the checkbook. And don't assume success.

The state's current walleye hatchery system costs $3.8 million a year. It produces about the same number of walleyes as Mille Lacs does each spring, right now, for $0. There is no stocking today.

Let's assume we don't want to just ignore all those other lakes that rely entirely on stocking for walleye; there are about 1,050 such lakes. Expanding a stocking program costs even more. New hatcheries, more manpower. Wisconsin is spending more than $13 million on a major expansion of that state's walleye-industrial complex.

There are other flaws: Stocking walleyes in a lake with good natural reproduction (Mille Lacs) tends to help little -- probably because nature has already found its survival sweet spot based on available habitat and food. Additionally, stocking walleyes in a lake with abundant northern pike (possibly Mille Lacs in the future) seems to help the pike more than anything else. It would an expensive way to grow pike food.

Next.

SIMPLIFY THE RULES

Just allow two walleyes of any size. Or one. Whatever. It's the slot limits that are screwing up the lake, several readers told me.

We all like simpler rules. This year only one walleye between 19 and 21 inches, or longer than 28 inches, can be kept. Such fish are incredibly hard to come by.

But relaxing the slot won't work.

Right now on the lake, anglers are seeing steady action from 13- to 16-inch fish. Those are the fish hatched in 2013 -- the only recent year that strong numbers of fish survived to adulthood. They're the future. We need as many of them to live as possible, at least for two years until the males are old enough to spawn and, hopefully, can create another bumper crop.

Besides, if we could keep those fish -- and there's no biological reason for that -- we'd bust the quota for sure. So practically speaking, ain't gonna happen.

CULL THE BIG FISH

Too many big fish with big appetites, some say. And it's true that the regs have coddled lunkers for years.

But it's doubtful that declaring open season on big fish will help the walleyes' future.

Let's take them one by one:

Smallmouth bass: They don't eat many walleye. They eat crayfish. The DNR has been slicing open the stomachs of predators for two years, and, much to my surprise, smallies really don't eat much except crayfish.

Muskies: They're huge (and not native), but there are hardly any of them. About one adult muskie per 50 acres on Mille Lacs. No wonder they're so hard to catch there.

Pike: Monster pike are rare as well -- a bit rarer since ice spearing returned in the winter. As for small pike, hang on a sec.

Walleyes: We need the big walleyes. They're the egg-producing females that can carry on the future. Their numbers are declining rapidly as they age and lost generations fail to replace them. Yes, they cannibalize the young walleye, but for the moment, we need them.

Also, you need to understand a key feature of nearly every animal that walks, crawls, flies or swims: Small growing animals, pound for pound, eat a lot more than big mature ones. Any parent who's ever had to put food on the table for a growing son knows this.

For fish, it comes down to this: Ten 1-pound walleyes eat more than one 10-pound walleye.

Same for pike. So yes, we probably should be killing more small pike. They're a growing population, and they're starting to have an effect on the walleye.

The DNR, tourism officials and a number of resorts are trying to get people to focus on pike (and smallmouths, since Mille Lacs is one of the best smallmouth lakes in the Lower 48 right now).

But it's not working. Maybe they're not marketing it right, but I haven't heard any good suggestions. (You really think bounties on 21-inch pike will work?) The walleye is king around Mille Lacs. End of story.

The walleye is also king in Mille Lacs. In fact, if you want one species to "blame" for eating all the young walleyes, blame the other walleyes, which are, bar none, the most prolific predators in the lake.

Right now, the most ravenous killer of baby walleyes, as a group, is probably the 2013 generation. Which is the hope for the future.

You see the dilemma.

Any other ideas?
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Re: Walleye season on Mille Lacs faces early shutdown

Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:28 am

Mille Lacs walleye: State nears quota; Dayton directs DNR to hold off changes
21 July, 2015 // Outdoors Now // Tags : fishing, Mille Lacs, tribal issues, walleye

Minnesota is almost maxed out its walleye catch on Lake Mille Lacs.

Gov. Mark Dayton has directed the DNR not to take any immediate action.

Keep reading for the announcement from the DNR.

[b]Strong catch, warm weather push Mille Lacs walleye fishery toward state quota
Other fishing on Mille Lacs unaffected, remains strong and near record highs]/b]

The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources announced today that last week’s creel survey on estimated walleye harvests, releases, and kill on Mille Lacs Lake during the first two weeks of July showed drastic increases that could result in the state reaching its limit by July 29.

Despite the ongoing challenges with the walleye population, other fishing on the lake remains strong and near record highs. DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr stressed that anglers should take advantage of the continuation of liberal northern pike and smallmouth bass regulations on the lake.

“Mille Lacs Lake remains one of the premiere fishing destinations in the state,” Landwehr said. “Northern pike and smallmouth bass are at or near record highs. Anglers should take advantage of the liberal regulations for these species. DNR tagging studies also indicate that muskies larger than 50 inches have never been more abundant.”

During the first seven months of the monitoring period (December 2014 – June 2015) walleye harvest rates were at or below predicted levels, based on tight regulations adopted for the open-water season. Based upon those results, total harvest was expected to be below the State’s 28,600-pound limit for this twelve-month period and the DNR’s June 30 creel study showed the state was within 15,300 pounds of reaching the annual quota.

However, as of July 15, when the last angler survey was conducted, the state was within just 3,000 pounds of reaching the annual quota. Records also show it was only the second time in 30 years that Mille Lacs walleye catch rates in July were higher than the second half of June. This dramatic spike is believed to be due to unusual circumstances – including the high catch rates over the 4th of July and warm water temperatures (the third highest on record). Warm water greatly increases walleye mortality on fish that had to be released because they did not fall within the harvest slot. The so-called “hooking mortality” of walleyes that die after being released counts toward the state quota.

Gov. Mark Dayton has directed the DNR to wait until after the next creel survey which will cover the period from July 16 to July 31, to see if the most recent numbers are an aberration. During that time, officials at the DNR, the Office of Tourism, and Department of Employment and Economic Development will meet with resort owners and other affected stakeholders on Mille Lacs to discuss the situation and seek recommendations.

A federal court decision legally requires state officials to abide by the limit agreed upon with the eight Chippewa bands for each year. After the next creel report is received, the commissioner will take the necessary actions. It should be emphasized, however, that if the state determines it has exceeded its harvest allotment, the commissioner will be legally required to suspend fishing for walleye on the lake.

The DNR has met with the Minnesota tribes who harvest on Mille Lacs, as well as the executive administrator of the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission on the situation and shared fisheries data with them. There is mutual concern to respond to the increased harvest and take steps necessary to protect the walleye population.

Earlier this year, the DNR also met with Mille Lacs Lake business owners and anglers to discuss the struggling walleye population and the risks of going over the lower quota. The DNR, Department of Employment and Economic Development, and Explore Minnesota Tourism will continue working with area resorts and businesses to gather their input, assess the impact of fishing conditions on area businesses, and work with the community as a decision is made on the continuation of the fishing season.

Additional Background on the Mille Lacs Lake Walleye Quota
Since 2008, not enough young walleye are surviving to maturity and replenishing the Mille Lacs Lake population. As a result, Mille Lacs walleye numbers are currently at a 30-year low. In response, the state instituted more restrictive walleye regulations this year in order to protect young walleyes so they could grow older.

In fact, this year Mille Lacs’ 2015 walleye safe harvest level was deliberately reduced from 60,000 to 40,000 pounds so that more fish could potentially survive and spawn to improve the walleye population. Under this year’s quota, state anglers can harvest up to 28,600 pounds of walleye, and the eight Chippewa bands with 1837 Treaty harvest rights can harvest up to 11,400 pounds of walleye. Anglers are able to keep one walleye that is 19- to 21-inches long, or longer than 28 inches.

Despite this year’s low walleye population, DNR fishery surveys have shown this year that there may be good news on the horizon. Biologists are seeing a large population of young walleyes hatched in 2013. Walleyes in that group are currently 10-to 13-inches long. It is important to protect those fish so they can contribute to future angling success and walleye production.

Information on Mille Lacs management can be found at www.mndnr.gov/millelacslake. This year’s fishing regulations are on the DNR website at www.mndnr.gov/fishmn
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Re: Walleye season on Mille Lacs faces early shutdown

Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:32 am

Anderson: Why Mille Lacs fishery faltered, and what we can do

Cannibalism of young walleyes by older and/or bigger fish, including older walleyes, might be the biggest Mille Lacs problem.

July 24, 2015 — 8:42am
DENNIS ANDERSON Dennis Anderson @stribdennis

Dick Sternberg didn’t predict Mille Lacs walleyes would collapse when he wrote his first analysis of the lake’s condition and management in 2003. But he did say 12 years ago that management of the lake, if not changed, likely would contribute to a marked downfall of Mille Lacs walleyes.

Which is what has happened, with Department of Natural Resources (DNR) Commissioner Tom Landwehr announcing Tuesday the strong likelihood that this year’s minimalist Mille Lacs sportfishing walleye quota of 28,600 pounds might be exceeded by month’s end.

If that occurs, walleye fishing on the big lake will end until at least Dec. 1.

Sternberg is a onetime DNR fisheries biologist whose Mille Lacs walleye management analysis was largely dismissed by the DNR.

In part this was due to bureaucratic parochialism, and in part it was because Sternberg undertook his data review at the request of PERM, or Proper Economic Resource Management, a group whose slogan is “Ban the gillnet.’’ Consequently, some viewed Sternberg’s work as an anti-netting hit job. It wasn’t.

In fact, a review of Sternberg’s study underscores that he pointed out what DNR fisheries managers have discussed more forthrightly only recently: that cannibalism of young walleyes by older and/or bigger fish, including older walleyes, might be the biggest Mille Lacs problem.

What’s more, the DNR’s continuation of tight harvest sportfishing slot limits in the years since likely has contributed to, if not solely resulted in, the lake’s present-day imbalanced (measured by age and size) walleye fishery.

Consider the following, which Sternberg published in 2003:

“All [Mille Lacs] walleye year-classes since the year 2000 have been well above average, with the strongest year class coming in 2001. But in the case of both the 2000 and 2001 year classes, the numbers were seriously depleted by the time the fish reached a year of age, most likely as a result of predation by the increasing population of large walleyes.

“In fact, the exceptionally strong 2001 year class went from 225 percent above average to 98 percent below average within one year. … As the situation now stands, future walleye fishing in Mille Lacs depends greatly on the 2002 year class and possibly the 2003, assuming it does not meet the same fate as the 2000 and 2001 year classes.

“Conclusion: As long as the Mille Lacs walleye population remains heavily skewed toward the larger size classes, the threat of heavy cannibalism of young-of-the-year walleyes will persist.’’

Now consider this, from an interview I did with DNR fisheries chief Don Pereira in 2014.

Question: What’s the status of Mille Lacs walleyes?

Pereira: We have an abundance of spawning females. But there’s an elevated mortality of young walleyes, and we’re not sure why. Walleyes are in the lake in good numbers after the spawn, but they’re not surviving in sufficient numbers as yearlings and 2-year-olds. … Our leading hypothesis is that they are probably dying from elevated predation.’’

A few points:

• Co-management by the state and eight Chippewa bands of the lake’s walleyes that began in 1998 and continues today has complicated that task beyond measure irrespective of whatever effect, if any, the bands’ netting has on the lake’s walleyes.

• In part this is because dividing the “safe allowable harvest’’ of Mille Lacs walleyes between the two parties requires, first, an accurate estimate of the lake’s walleye population and size distribution. Some observers question to what degree this is possible. To the extent that it isn’t, if it isn’t, harvest distribution and size and other management decisions flowing from it will be similarly inaccurate.

• Even if fisheries managers have accurately assessed walleye numbers and size distribution, the DNR and the bands nevertheless have continued to ignore the lake’s growing predator/large fish problem or have mistakenly believed until recently that its effect on the lake’s smaller walleyes is inconsequential. How else to explain the DNR’s continuation of slot limits that encourage the harvest of the lake’s smaller, rather than larger, walleyes?

• To reduce the number of big Mille Lacs walleyes, the DNR and the bands in the near future likely will have to agree to exceed the lake’s safe allowable walleye harvest — a difficult but perhaps necessary decision to rebalance the lake.

What to do? Start here: The governor and key legislators should tell the DNR that its Mille Lacs fisheries management meetings with the Chippewa no longer can be held in secret.

Rather, to ensure from this point on that the public knows firsthand the nature, context and agreed-upon definitions of data being used to make management decisions, these get-togethers should be open to the public.

And should have been long ago.
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Re: Walleye season on Mille Lacs faces early shutdown

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:52 am

Quack wrote:
get-n-birdy wrote:.........Landwehr said anglers should fish Mille Lacs for other species.

This is laughable


Um, he didn't say they should give up on walleyes, he's just trying to encourage people to make the best of it.

I love bluebills and cans but hardly ever even see them anymore let alone shoot many. I have come to realize that if I'm going to enjoy MN duck hunting my old standard of "preferred species drakes only" is a pretty big handicap.

After "making the best of it" for a few years I've found there is good hunting in MN, it's just not the same as the old way. I even support teal seasons and open water hunting now.

Of course, some people just won't change and they will continue to be miserable.

If Mille Lacs is in your wheelhouse, better learn to try new species


Agree with what you're saying to a point.

Consider myself an all around fishermen. Mille Lacs smallie fishing is awesome. Don't pigeon hole myself or latch on to one specific species, way to ADD for that. But to honestly think most guys who regularly target Mille Lacs lake walleyes, are going to start supporting businesses and go fishing for snot rockets, slimmers, 'skies or smallies is a joke. Most would target them for (KRG) kill and release in the garbage.

It's pretty bad when Minnesotan's cling to mediocrity and sub par everything.
DENNIS ANDERSON, Then, about five years ago, in 2020, there were no more ducks in the state,

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Re: RE: Re: Walleye season on Mille Lacs faces early shutdown

Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:02 pm

Quack wrote:[quote="get-n-birdy"].........Landwehr said anglers should fish Mille Lacs for other species.

This is laughable


Um, he didn't say they should give up on walleyes, he's just trying to encourage people to make the best of it.

I love bluebills and cans but hardly ever even see them anymore let alone shoot many. I have come to realize that if I'm going to enjoy MN duck hunting my old standard of "preferred species drakes only" is a pretty big handicap.

After "making the best of it" for a few years I've found there is good hunting in MN, it's just not the same as the old way. I even support teal seasons and open water hunting now.

Of course, some people just won't change and they will continue to be miserable.

If Mille Lacs is in your wheelhouse, better learn to try new species[/quote]
Ok tom ive made the best of it and continued to nail walleyes in sd where the lakes are chalked full of hungry eyes. Not going to fish a lake you guys destroyed.

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