YWD---Further DNR Hypocrisy

[Fish Felon]

[this started as a reply to h2ofwlr's praire pothole post]


You know what would be a really good way to show a kid wetland ecology on Sept 12th? Taking them on a teal hunt. Oh wait, that is YWD so they're allowed to cripple more non-teal in one day than what would probably happen in an entire teal season even though only 5,000 take part statewide.

Since the DNR was so concerned with potential mistake ducks taken and shot at during a non-existing teal season they used that propaganda as justification to be against it in 2014, with the results from the other states proving their fake concerns completely invalid, why don't they alleviate any concern for too many ducks being crippled and not harvested during YWD since it is something that is actually occurring in our state?

The DNR uses figures of 10K-15K for harvest during YWD but they've never looked at the real impact and concerns YWD raises. Why haven't they used "spy blinds" to record how many ducks are crippled and never recovered? Why haven't they quantified the "harassment level" to our local duck population by documenting how many flocks are shot at?

These are things they've negatively speculated about and used as the justification against a teal season yet for some reason they've never cared to bring up let alone research for YWD, which they've been holding for almost two decades. This seems extremely hypocritical to me.

They haven't even gauged the intended impact of YWD, which is to create more hunters.

The only way to know what impact Youth Waterfowl Day has had on Minnesota hunter numbers is to survey duck hunters and find out how many are hunting today solely because of the event, said DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr, who also supports the youth hunt. “That would be expensive,’’ he said.
August 2013

Oh Darn! It's just too bad Tom can't find any money in the department's purse strings to survey duck hunters, Golly Gee Whiz! Why would he want to actually gauge the impact of something the DNR has been pushing for two decades? There's no way he'd use expense as an excuse out of fear that the results might be awful and diminish a special interest group's 'baby' that he has close ties with that also sponsors a youth waterfowl camp as their biggest accomplishment.

from the same article as the Landwehr quote
Brad Nylin, executive director of the Minnesota Waterfowl Association, acknowledges the lack of evidence that Youth Waterfowl Day is helping recruit young hunters, but said he continues to support the one-day event.

“It’s the one time where kids can go out and hunt ducks and they are the only ones shooting without competing with adults. I think there’s a real need for it to go forward. I don’t see a negative.’’

Yeah Brad, why would you see a negative---especially through those rose-colored 'bias brand' glasses you have on? The MWA and DNR with the help of the press has made sure any possible downside of YWD won't be exposed so no one sees any negative. It's for the kids. Nevermind the fact that it actually takes a day out of the season for all other hunters and no one has any phucking clue if it has done anything at all towards accomplishing the goal for why it exists and was implemented two decades ago.... But Oh well,,,,I'm just glad the Commish and his BFF Brad are unbiased in their unassuming ways of being unable to see negatives. It'd be different if for example, they somehow saw and made up a bunch of negatives for a bonus hunting season on a particular species of duck. Then I'd probably question if they're a couple of azzhole hypocrites.

It's funny the DNR couldn't find the money for a survey to see what the impact of YWD is throughout all those years yet somehow the money was miraculously right there out of the blue in order to send out a survey with weighted questions so they could get negative results in order to justify their opposition to a teal season because they had no scientific management reason not to hold one. Seems sort of convenient.

You know what is the best survey of duck hunters to see if they'll partake in a season? Actual participation numbers from actual hunts. Based off of the embarrassing 5K of the 75-80K that waterfowl hunt in this state participating in YWD why is it still around? The DNR just used a survey of duck hunters as reason for being against a teal season with questions they intentionally wrote to get poor results....and they still came back showing several times more hunters would participate in a teal season than YWD!!!!

"We need to end YWD because I just don't see it providing additional opportunities to warrant continuing." ---Fictional DNR Staffer Spouting Landwehr Rhetoric

[HnkrCrash]

Youth Cripplefest has been and always will be complete bullshit. Add to that over water hunting during early goose season. The reason they dont do surveys on the "success" of YCF is because it doesn't exist based on the objectives set forth for its purpose. Of the measly 5000 participants, I'd put money on the fact that well under 10% are first time waterfowl hunters in any given year. For the rest, it's just a day to shoot off several boxes of shells to cripple a pile of ducks and maybe bring home 2 or 3 if they are lucky. Why idiots in this state continue to support a program that is an abject failure and meets its stated objective for a couple hundred kids at most baffles me, especially when the negative impacts affect tens of thousands. If parents weren't such selfish assholes and weren't being forced by law to focus on their kids, there'd be no need for a special day where "kids don't have to compete with adults". The DNR refuses to offer additional opportunities for all duck hunters, but has no problem coddling a few brats and their entitled parents who will be going out in a couple of weeks anyway. Double standard at its finest.

[gimpfinger]

Youth Cripplefest has been and always will be complete bullshit. Add to that over water hunting during early goose season. The reason they dont do surveys on the "success" of YCF is because it doesn't exist based on the objectives set forth for its purpose. Of the measly 5000 participants, I'd put money on the fact that well under 10% are first time waterfowl hunters in any given year. For the rest, it's just a day to shoot off several boxes of shells to cripple a pile of ducks and maybe bring home 2 or 3 if they are lucky. Why idiots in this state continue to support a program that is an abject failure and meets its stated objective for a couple hundred kids at most baffles me, especially when the negative impacts affect tens of thousands. If parents weren't such selfish assholes and weren't being forced by law to focus on their kids, there'd be no need for a special day where "kids don't have to compete with adults". The DNR refuses to offer additional opportunities for all duck hunters, but has no problem coddling a few brats and their entitled parents who will be going out in a couple of weeks anyway. Double standard at its finest.

Nobody remembers what it was originally for. I'd be all for it if they had to get a one time free license for it. After that you hunt like the rest of US.

I only took a kid out once. A true first timer. My boy never went out on it. He went like a normal person, during season.

Team Power Dump

[Fish Felon]

YWD is just more total bullshyte where we never would have seen how deep these phucktard's hypocrisy runs to protect their demented agenda had their true colors not been exposed with the teal season.

If it didn't pizz me off so much I'd be laughing at how comical it is.

The survey part kills me since the issue of expense for some reason was never raised when they sent out the survey to torpedo the teal season this year. Come to think of it, when has the DNR ever chosen not to send out a survey or mention they didn't have money for one they wanted to do? I've never heard them for anything else say, "We really wish we could get some hard data on this by conducting a survey but there's no money earmarked for it."

Yet the Commish himself can't find any money for a survey to find out how effective YWD is at it's goal of recruiting new hunters.

Pure and total bullshyte.

What this means is they know how utterly ineffective and pointless YWD actually is. If they thought there was even a chance at a survey coming back with some positive results they'd do it in a hearbeat knowing they could spin any negative results. "Uh, the thing is it was sent out right when kids were going back to college so that messed up the sampling by not including a large demographic of new hunters probably created by YWD. M'Kay"


The other stuff like the crippling and disturbance rate of local waterfowl populations is just the icing on the cake; the follow up joke after delivering the big punch line.

They'll speculate non-stop about the disastrous impacts caused by a season that doesn't exist without any concrete data to back it up, but never discuss how to get a better read on the real impacts of something that is actually taking place. Has anyone ever heard or read a YWD report from some Dad that didn't go along the lines of, "Well, we came back with only two but we saw a ton of ducks and got a lot of shooting in. Junior went threw five boxes of shells before he ran out!"

Since they're the crowd that's overly paranoid about early hunts and their effects on local ducks you'd think all those reports would cause at least a little bit of concern.

But it's for the kids. It's not about the ducks. When it comes to other hunters, then it's about the ducks.

In the end YWD is very much not at all about the kids...it has absolutely nothing to do with the kids. YWD is about a bunch of delusional hypocrites who blindly support it because they've brainwashed themselves into thinking it's the right thing to do despite having no idea if it actually is or any desire to find out. YWD is something insecure adults can support or say they support so they can feel better about themselves.

It's just like how they've brainwashed themselves into thinking that by limiting other hunters's opportunities so they shoot fewer ducks is "conservation."

[maplelakeduckslayer]

My Dad took me YWD 1 or two times, and I thought at the time it was pretty cool he went through all the work just for me. But he also took me every other time he went duck hunting, it was always just me and him out duck hunting, every once in a great while one of my buddies would tag along. Did it grip me for life? No. Before my Dad even knew he could bring me and I could shoot, I would go duck hunting with him all the time, just sit in the boat with hot chocolate and binos. Spending time with him out there in the boat, even though I couldn't shoot, was what hooked me on it. It wasn't one special day

[jriegel]

FF if your against the spinner law, you got my vote for next waterfowl commish......

[Nershi]

How come everyone assumes kids cripple a lot of birds? You either kill them, miss them or cripple them. Everyone gets cripples including guys who are excellent shots. I agree they shoot a ton of shells but I don't see that equating to a cripple fest. I crippled birds when I was 11 and I still do. I would say I cleaned them up just about as good then as I do now. I saw way more crippling on opener when all the morons are out skybusting than I did when I was able to participate in YWD.

I don't have anything against YWD because I don't think it really affects hunting during the regular season. Just like teal season wouldn't affect the regular season much, if any. I agree it doesn't serve it's original purpose of recruiting kids very well but I still think it is fun for the kids to have their own day. I sure had a good time when I was able to participate. That said, if it is YWD or teal, I am definitely not for it.

[Fish Felon]

.


What if YWD has actually had a negative impact on hunter recruitment?


It's a concern that deserves consideration after 20 years with no positive signs that it is helping increase the number of young hunters. What if by bringing kids on hunts where they're pampered and most of the negative aspects of duck hunting in this state are removed it spoils them and makes them less likely to duck hunt during the regular season? Or to take up the sport on their own once they can no longer participate in YWD? What if we're inhibiting the way the desire to learn to hunt is formed in kids by coddling them on YWD?

Could it be that the best way to indoctrinate kids into duck hunting is by having them partaking in 'real hunts' where they have to hold their own? Maybe if they're expected to be putting out decoys while their 'mentor' is frantically setting the other side of the spread, do their part in covering the blind to match it's surroundings, learn they have to get up quick to shoot once the shot is called to have any chance of hitting something, have to deal with other hunters impacting their hunt, get called out and scolded for doing stupid stuff, and learn to enjoy the days where few birds are seen and shot is actually how we should be recruiting young hunters?

Maybe the sense of pride and accomplishment by working to become a functioning contributor when hunting is what drives kids to become better hunters, want to learn the skills for how to do it on their own, and take it up the sport long term.

What hobbies or pastimes in your life have you taken up after someone handed success to you or made success look really easy? Maybe by handing success to these kids we're ruining them. Without challenge there is no reward.


Just another reason why the Commish and his delusional friends might want to look into the real effects of something like YWD instead of spending all their time speculating about things that haven't happened yet. What if in the process of being so concerned about blindly protecting what they perceive is the right thing they've actually done the wrong thing? Personally, I'd want to know.

[gimpfinger]

IMO giving certain groups "their day...their special right" is what's ruining this country.

Team Power Dump

[Quack]

I don't know any specifically but I would bet some adults have been driven from the sport by perceptions of youth day ruining opener