Shallow Lakes Program

[Bullet21XD]

Doesn't need to be an "official" refuge to be sanctuary for a duck. But i'm sure you knew that. Literally, thousands of holes a duck can hang out unmolested by you, or any other hunter. They find shit you never knew existed.

[tornadochaser]

. They find shit you never knew existed.

Which is why we shoot 6 man limits on MN opener just hunting drainage ditches. The birds get busted out of the sloughs and go right to the ditches.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[h2ofwlr]

Doesn't need to be an "official" refuge to be sanctuary for a duck. But i'm sure you knew that. Literally, thousands of holes a duck can hang out unmolested by you, or any other hunter. They find shit you never knew existed.

Spot on.

For example, years ago Swan lake had many little holes in the thick cattails, often they piled in there. People left these little "refuges" alone as they could not get to them. And ducks stuck around as a direct result. Then the mud motors came about, and no more little "refuges" and the over all hunting took a decidedly turn for the worse in that point in time.

Undisturbed areas are a must for them to stick around. Studies have proven that especially mid afternoon to dusk disturbances will indeed push the ducks out much sooner.
BTW, this includes the #%&king fishermen with their 115hp motors buzzing the divers on the lakes, and we wonder why there are no divers in Mn like 40 years ago? SMH!

Also about that same time on SL, the DNR in its infinite stupidity of mismanagement of SL, decided to lower the lake 12 to 18" lower that the old average height was - the result was many of these refuges are now dry and decreased the over all water acreage by 40%. Heck the main "official" refuge is mostly now dry in the fall.

And hunters wonder why they see no ducks? Grrrrr....

[Nershi]

BTW, this includes the #%&king fishermen with their 115hp motors buzzing the divers on the lakes, and we wonder why there are no divers in Mn like 40 years ago? SMH!

Do you seriously believe this is the reason we no longer get the diver flights like we used to?

Al, I'm curious, when is the last time you were on one of MN's large diver lakes in the fall? How much boat traffic did you see?

[h2ofwlr]

Saw it on Winni about 9-10 years ago when I was glassing it for divers. Cast and blast guys on a nice sunny 50 degree day in late Oct. They drove right through the flocks of coots and divers, 3 different boats in less than an hour.

In 1980 the average HP sold was a 15 with a 14', by 2000 it was 95HP on a17' from what a boat dealer told me. Heck I am to blame too. I used to use a 3hp 40 years ago, then it was a 6, then a 9.9, then a 15, then a 25HP OB twenty years ago. I have seen the enemy - and it is us.

Back the fishermen, heck in central Mn I've had cast and blast guys snag my decoy line on lakes while I was hunting and then they started bitching at me. WTH?

As for SL, all the boat traffic has crippled that place. All spring and summer long guys are motoring and chasing the ducks. And we wonder why no ducks are around? Where as I've seen it during a severe drought when you could not motor as too shallow of water to do so - and ALL sorts of waterfowl were around.

The bottom line is additional boat traffic does NOT help. Is it the only factor? No. As food is crucial. But IMO not being disturbed while feeding resting, especially after 2PM does indeed make a difference. As the biologists have said, it takes so much energy for a diver to get up off the water, if it gets up 2 times during the day, it's a break even affair weight gain wise. And if they get up 3 times, they loose weight. Remember they need to be gaining weight for the next leg of their migration.

[Nershi]

I hunt leech and Winnie just about every year and other than early October, you rarely see fisherman out. I have hunted lotw a couple times and have never seen a boat. Red lake has basically no boating traffic in the fall. Vermilion and Mille lacs are the only large lakes that I see a lot of fisherman traffic, mostly Muskies, and even so I don't think it's enough to push birds out. And those two aren't really big diver lakes anyhow. I've seen this theory posted before and I just don't see it being an issue at all. If your story is true I'd say it's an exception to the rule. I think it's a habitat/food issue, and not necessarily on the rafting lakes.

Flying twice in a day makes it so that a diver can't put on weight?! All the divers I hunt must be on a diet. How exactly did they conduct this study? Under most conditions unpressured divers fly more than twice a day.

[Fish Felon]

My point wasn't about the conservative bag limits, and the MnDNR's inability to grow a pair and give us an equal harvest opportunity, it was that there are all these lakes getting water control structures, creating premium habitat, but none are getting set aside as refuges to foster the congregation of migratory birds throughout the fall.

I get what you were saying now and agree. Odd how that can happen sometimes, sharing the same sentiment yet somehow disagreeing while doing it.

The gist of yours was along the lines of the Dad's tickled pink and proud of their kids while exclaiming how fast the action was on youth day when Junior and his younger brother plowed through a case of shells on without a bird in hand to show for it. Or the guys that are more content to discuss the finer nuances between shotguns and loads while standing in the open on a slough than they are trying to make any effort to shoot ducks.

I've always thought it'd be a good idea to let a newly completed project be off limits for a length of time before opening it up to hunting, even more so now with all the projects being done.

Hypothetically let's say that every new WPA/WMA gets completed it has to sit idle for 5 years---maybe that'd be too long so you go with 3, whatever works. It's finished, excavation work done, tile pulled, upland portion seeded, and all the signs are put up around it....only now they're a state game refuge on WMA's and they have federal refuge signs instead of WPA ones, or whatever pencils out monetarily and legally. Those signs stay on there for 3 or 5 years while the habitat establishes itself and wildlife, hopefully lots of waterfowl, begin honing to it and patterning it for a few years. Once the period is done have some intern go change out the signs and use them on the next nearest one that just got completed.

What's the worst that could happen? A parcel starts pulling so many birds by the third year guys get pissed having to watch them for two more in anticipation of lighting the place up?

There are tons of refuges for waterfowl in the state. The biggest one sits inside the 494/694 loop. I enjoy working to get into a small spot that's unmolested that I get to myself. Still, every now and then its pretty sweet glassing a prime piece of real-estate with birds piling into it...the stuff wildlife prints are painted to resemble.

That's why true refuges suck. They're the biggest cock tease ever. Don't get me wrong, I value them and they serve their purpose of pulling and holding birds, often too well...but sitting there and watching them pile in out of the windward side as they cut across a point while watching and knowing you'll never get to sit over a spread there...kind of blows.

Being able to watch that and realize in a few years you could be on that point would be a lot better, in my opinion. Plus you're pulling to different areas, drawing birds and holding them but not having them be able to fly the boundary without going a **** hair over the edge of it after half a century of they and their ancestors knowing every square inch of it might make for better hunting.

[Bullet21XD]

Actual refuges opening to hunting for the first time usually results in a pretty severe beatdown...for a short period the first year. Doesn't take long for the place to transform into just another duckless shithole.

I think setting up some WMA's and WPA's on a yearly rotational hunting/non hunting status could be very beneficial to hunters. BUT...we may kill too many ducks...and changing some signage every year would prove to be more work than any area wildlife manager in MN could handle.

[Bailey]

Doesn't need to be an "official" refuge to be sanctuary for a duck. But i'm sure you knew that. Literally, thousands of holes a duck can hang out unmolested by you, or any other hunter. They find shit you never knew existed.

Spot on.

For example, years ago Swan lake had many little holes in the thick cattails, often they piled in there. People left these little "refuges" alone as they could not get to them. And ducks stuck around as a direct result. Then the mud motors came about, and no more little "refuges" and the over all hunting took a decidedly turn for the worse in that point in time.

Undisturbed areas are a must for them to stick around. Studies have proven that especially mid afternoon to dusk disturbances will indeed push the ducks out much sooner.
BTW, this includes the #%&king fishermen with their 115hp motors buzzing the divers on the lakes, and we wonder why there are no divers in Mn like 40 years ago? SMH!

Also about that same time on SL, the DNR in its infinite stupidity of mismanagement of SL, decided to lower the lake 12 to 18" lower that the old average height was - the result was many of these refuges are now dry and decreased the over all water acreage by 40%. Heck the main "official" refuge is mostly now dry in the fall.

And hunters wonder why they see no ducks? Grrrrr....

Al,

From what I have read on Swan I have no idea why people continue to hunt it? Maybe it is the only area they have close enough in which they can mud motor around and rip up vegetation. At any rate is sounds like a crowded miserable experience which the DNR has helped to detroy.

[Bailey]

Actual refuges opening to hunting for the first time usually results in a pretty severe beatdown...for a short period the first year. Doesn't take long for the place to transform into just another duckless shithole.

I think setting up some WMA's and WPA's on a yearly rotational hunting/non hunting status could be very beneficial to hunters. BUT...we may kill too many ducks...and changing some signage every year would prove to be more work than any area wildlife manager in MN could handle.

I would agree. They would be beatdown hard very fast. I know of a WMA in western mn that used to be a refuge and held thousands of ducks even from the first day of the season. The hunting in the surrouding areas was good because of this. They opened it up to hunting and the last few times I drove past it I never saw a duck.